No More Protests?

illithid235

I'm not sure how many of you have heard about the executive order passed by W on July 17th, but behind all the legal jargon, it seems that anyone protesting the Iraq War can now be arrested and have their assets frozen.

Now, I'm reluctant to jump to conclusions, but if this is true, it's a violation of the Constitution, and if the Constitution can be violated, what other crazy things can happen?

I'm not very knowledgeable about politics, but this is starting to get me worried. Thoughts?

mario

Is there a specific passage that makes you think our freedom of speech is being hindered in any way? Because I'm not seeing it. The executive order says the person in question has "to have committed ... an act of violence (etc etc)". Free speech by means of peaceable protest wouldn't seem to fall under any of the definitions listed, as it provides no assistance, either direct or indirect, toward those that would work against the stability of Iraq. It pretty clearly lays out a requirement of a definite connection between the individual and terroristic activities.

That said, our legal system allows a great deal of leeway in such matters, so an argument could be made for protesters working with an intent to hinder the country's attempts to create a stable government in Iraq, but it's a stretch. Just make sure your protests remain peaceable and legal within the confines laid out, and you'll be fine.

This site (Google searched for "right to protest", found it within seconds) has a nice informative PDF on the proper steps to take to perform legal protests (here!).

geoko

well, The dub-man has been rolling back the constitution for a while now. Just read the patriot act. Not to mention, people were arrested for protesting when this whole thing began. I was working in downtown San Francisco when all those protests about going into Iraq started, and saw people getting arrested all the time. Does that mean I think it's okay for these types of things to continue? no, I'm just saying it's nothing new, and constitutional rights have been evaporating for a long time now.

Not to mention, it's already illegal to have violence in a protest, that's not a protest, it's a riot.

mario

When you hear about mass arrests during protests, it's usually because large-scale protests break the law by merit of being large; they disrupt local business and impede flow of traffic, and it's hard to keep large crowds like that under control without a few of 'em getting a little rowdy. It's still possible to have orderly protests.

illithid235

Yeah I figured all the bluster was a little bit exaggerated.

And no, it's not a specific passage. I saw all the hype on the internets and such and just wanted to see what everyone here thought. I'm reluctant to trust anything that people say that is so extreme.

Behemoth

I wouldn't have thought it could impede one's right to protest had you not first suggested it, but when I read it, I saw how it could come dangerously close.

mario

We've always been close, since long before 9/11 and the Iraq War. Luckily we've got the Constitution to fall back on, and special interest groups like ACLU to protect individual rights when in jeopardy. And Jack McCoy to prosecute the real bad guys!

And Jack Bauer to kill them without a trial.





And Jack Shepherd to operate on them, killing them in the process because he's got a really lousy track record for performing surgery on people.

Professor MacJake

Bah, President Bartlet wouldn't let that happen.

geoko

honestly, more disturbing than the protest laws is the extension and expansion of the rights the government has to without warrant look at the contents of emails and phone records of international calls without any kind of warrant. That's right, for example, since I have emailed a friend of mine who lives in Ireland, or for that matter, I've emailed some of you who live in foreign countries, that is subject to search essentially on a whim.

Behemoth

Only if you're a "suspected terrorist". They can't search spy on just anybody's international emails and phone calls...unless they say they think you or the party you contacted might have maybe been a terrorist or been in contact with a terrorist.

DrLeopoldStrabismus

Hey, the OSI guys at work asked me today to deliver a message:

"We're not listening in on your conversations. Please resume talking about anything and everything."

KhanFusion

What are you talking about? We've always been at war with Oceania.

geoko

Behemoth wrote: »

Only if you're a "suspected terrorist". They can't search spy on just anybody's international emails and phone calls...unless they say they think you or the party you contacted might have maybe been a terrorist or been in contact with a terrorist.

Ah yes, the old, as long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear argument.

actually, my understanding is that part of the expansion is that they can now go BEYOND that. If the government has reason to believe someone is being contacted in France, they can say "give me everything going to and from france from July 1 through 7." Now obviously, in the interest of time, they would probably be much more focused than that, meaning look for suspects and likely ignore anything from me to random orangebelters. But operating under that assumption means I'm willing to give up my rights based on a theory that the people who are willing to obtain these documents without a warrant share my sentiments on the subject, when that statement alone implies a difference in opinion on the issue.

I'm opposed to this until Bill O'Reilly tells me I shouldn't be, then of course, he's right, so this would be as well. ALL HAIL O'REILLY!

Nukivaj

DrLeopoldStrabismus

You all are just paranoid because you think the wrong people are in power. Don't worry, those in power are very responsible and would never abuse it. Go to sleep now.

Serephel

According to Daily Show or Colbert Report, somewhere in that hour, they mentioned how Bush recently passed a bill allowing surveillance of international phone calls and e mails, even if you have no terrorist ties.

It was Colbert Report. I remember now, he made a joke about how his dog is one of three things in this country not suspected of being a terrorist.