I agree with Mr. cleansocks. But would like to add that I would not continue life as if nothing happened, I would go meditate in some public place (to keep my self from getting too idealisic/unrealistic) and try to attain enlightenment.
As i'm still trying to figure out if this is a 'immortality- awesome? y/n' thread or an 'immortality. discuss.' thread, i'll throw my two cents in anyway. ^_^
I guess anyone's point of view on immortality is based strongly on their religion. I, being a LaVayan Satanist, would enjoy immortality to it's fullest. All of the worlds treasures exist here in your existence right now as opposed to having something to look forward to post mortem. Christians, however may frown on the idea of immortality due their foresight into the paradise of the afterlife. They may view immortality as a punishment, or a cage where their souls are kept captive for their wrongs. Imo, immortality would be a brilliant thing, given how the world is now, and sans the ability to 'warp the fabric of your surroundings'. There's just so much to do in life that is cannot be packed into the give-or-take 100 years we have to be alive.
So.... I was looking around on Wikipedia, and I found what I think may be a solution to my worry about mind uploading. I worried that during the upload, your actual consciousness would be lost, and the copy would live on.
But replacing the mind with artificial components piece by piece might be the answer. Apparently your body does this all the time, as molecules in your brain are replaced with new ones. Essentially you get a new brain every so often, and though you could argue the opposite, I still think that I'm the same person, despite having had a new brain several times over.
So by replacing your brain piece by piece, you could retain your own consciousness throughout the procedure, and still be conscious after your brain was fully replaced. Problem solved, true immortality is possible.
Unfortunately, I won't be around to take advantage of it... but I'm happy for future populations.
I'm coming in a bit late to the discussion but I will say that a ton of really good points have been made throughout. For me, though, I think I would have to reject the offer of immortality if given to me. My initial reason for that is because I would never want to live alone, without anyone else to spend my time with; however, once that was made into one of the conditions, I thought "Well what about kids, I would want to have a family of some sort."
But that's been mostly addressed too... still, I think that a normal life would beat out a life that goes on (for just about) forever. Maybe I'm too much of a romantic, but growing old with someone I love and raising my children to a ripe old age and watching things develop in my personal bubble of the universe (as short as it may be in the big scheme of things) sounds like a good plan. I might perhaps accept an extended life, maybe like living for 2 centuries or something like that... but aging just seems 'right' to me, and I think when I'm really old and if my partner is just as old as I am (or already dead), I think I could welcome death in remembrance of my time on Earth.
Go ahead, call me old fashioned for enjoying things the way they are now. I accept that my views may be seen as immature or boring, but I think that's the way I prefer it. While I say that I would prefer my short, 80-some year life, I understand that tons of people would accept the chance to see much much more in their extended lifetime; I would prefer to just hear about the future rather than wait so many years for that time to come around, and if I can't have either of those, then I would say that I'm fine right now.
Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind in a few years; right now I'm satisfied with the idea of an average yet long and finite life. Not everyone hates their death, as long as they think they've lived a good life...
I definitely wouldn't say immature or boring. I understand that the concept of immortality is a bit unnatural, and maybe it would be a bad thing in the long run. Children do complicate the matter a lot, and it's likely that you would have to forego reproduction if you wanted to become immortal. It's just a different choice, that's all.
And I also realize that I'm wishing for immortality when I'm in my 20s, and I haven't lived that long. I might be wishing for death when I get to my 90s, and not from health reasons, but just because I'm tired of living.
B] You could think of your moment-to-moment existence as a near-infinite string of consciousness copy-pastes. Do you get what I'm trying to say here? I've read the argument that it's scary to upload yourself to a computer, because the original dies, but I've always thought of it thusly: From moment to moment, your mind is never the same. The me NOW is not the me a moment ago who is not the me two moments ago, ad infinitum. The person who lived in my body yesterday? He is dead and I only have a memory of him. He wasn't afraid to go, just like the me NOW isn't afraid to go into the next moment.
Me NOW won't exist in a second, or in a minute. He'll be dead. A new me will replace him. He won't be the same person, but it's not scary. I'll be effectively 'dead', but I'll be replaced with a better approximation of myself. Still...it's not scary.
With the uploaded-to-a-computer-scenario, it is overwhelming at first, yeah. My main thought is that I'll go to sleep, and never wake up, and then a copy of me will be running around...but I won't know about it because I'll be dead.
But then I think that this happens every night. When I wake up, me NOW will be dead, and replaced with a copy.
The main hurdle seems to be transferring my apathy from the every-day occurrence to the one-time computer upload.
C] I know I skimmed over some folks posts here and thought, "What?" about a few of them. Did anyone get this way about mine? I kind of just *vomited* my brain onto the page.
There are a good number of types of satanist such as, but not limited to, LaVeyan, Spiritual, and Luciferian. It all depends on the set of beliefs, and how they differ from each other. Ex. Luciferian satanists believe in Satan as A being such as christians believe it god as a being, whereas LaVeyan satanists (Named after Anton LaVey) Believe in Satan as a picture of our beliefs as opposed to like a deity.
I'm sort of in the same boat as Mish42, I think I rather live to a ripe old age and grow wise and strive for some sort of enlightenment, then maybe teach what I have learned throughout my life. But, then again I might rather be more elf-like and live for 700 years or so.:D
Basically I would like to live up to the time I am ready to die.
I don't think I'd ever accept immortality. I feel like after just a hundred years, the person that existed then would be drastically different than who I am now. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I understand how much a person can change. I have many different views now as opposed to when I was even two years younger. But it seems like if I lived forever I'd devalue most things in the world. Everybody I'd ever love would die. I'd remember great tragedies and wars forever.
I can imagine that after a few hundred years I'd become a reclusive observer of the world. I'd stop caring about lives and the only thing that would interest me is seeing how the world plays out. Seeing if decisions made in the present ever turned out for the best or watching nations collapse and rebuild over time. Even if immortality came with group of friends and loved ones that were also immortal, I can't imagine that changing much other than there'd be a bunch of people distancing themselves from humanity. I really don't want to be that kind of person, but I don't think I'm strong enough to avoid becoming like that after a few centuries. I can't even imagine what I'd be like in 10,000 years
Maybe I'm just not ambitious enough. If I had a to-do list for my life right now, I don't think there'd be much on it. Raise a family, see some other countries, learn some awesome skills, there's nothing I really want to do that can't be accomplished in one lifetime. That could easily change in the coming years but I think at the end of my lifetime I'll be content.
Okay, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I wanted to offer a spin on the immortality idea:
What if some people were able to live for a few centuries? Let's say that you just simply age more slowly than normal people, and you can live a nice four or five centuries of life, barring any accidents. You're still as fragile and as vulnerable as everyone else; a car accident or a gunshot might kill you just as easily.
Furthermore, it is not just you. Other people, although rare, are born with this genetic anomaly. You can't tell by looking at someone on the street, but there are enough people to where if you had the patience, you could potentially seek out other centurions like you, once people figured out they weren't aging at the same rate as their peers.
What would you all say to that? Would an extended lifespan of a couple hundred years be more tempting?
Well, that depends. If you lives five times as long as a normal human, would you spend your first 5 years unable to talk or walk, completely dependant on your parents? Spend your last 25 years in a retirement home? Or would you age more like a normal human to start, but then slow down as you reach adulthood?
Okay, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I wanted to offer a spin on the immortality idea:
What if some people were able to live for a few centuries? Let's say that you just simply age more slowly than normal people, and you can live a nice four or five centuries of life, barring any accidents. You're still as fragile and as vulnerable as everyone else; a car accident or a gunshot might kill you just as easily.
Furthermore, it is not just you. Other people, although rare, are born with this genetic anomaly. You can't tell by looking at someone on the street, but there are enough people to where if you had the patience, you could potentially seek out other centurions like you, once people figured out they weren't aging at the same rate as their peers.
What would you all say to that? Would an extended lifespan of a couple hundred years be more tempting?
But in that situation, we'd all be running around with broadswords trying to decapitate each other. A long-lived life full of fear of death by decapitation doesn't sound all that great to me.
Well, that depends. If you lives five times as long as a normal human, would you spend your first 5 years unable to talk or walk, completely dependant on your parents? Spend your last 25 years in a retirement home? Or would you age more like a normal human to start, but then slow down as you reach adulthood?
Oh, hm, never thought of that. Um, for the sake of argument, let's say you age like everyone else for the first 20 years or so, and then you start aging much more slowly. Again, all other body processes are fine, you just age slowly for a few hundred years.
I find it interesting that everyone picks 20. Not that I'm arguing. It's just interesting.
And I do like the 'living for a few centuries' idea... I just wonder if, even at the end of those centuries, I still would not want to die. But it's better than just one century.
Well, I'd say 20 or so because by that point in time you're entering adulthood. You're old enough to start doing things in the world, but young enough to enjoy it without being hindered by all the other problems that come with odl age.
Well the best thing would be if (ok warning, switching into nerd mode) you had something like the elves do in lord of the rings. (Im not an expert this is just how i figured they lived so long.) I guess they have that necklace type dongle that keeps them in the state theyre in for as longs as they wear it (?) But my point is it would be best to have that so you COULD age, but you could be whatever age you want for however long you wore it, then you could die.
I was writing a post in this the other day but refreshed the page and lost it, this discussion reminds of the book Jack the Bodiless by Julian May. She has a lot of really cool ideas in the books, one of them being extended life. If I remember correctly, only some humans were evolving into these people who could better control their mind (like having super minds, with mind shields and thought sharing and telekinesis and telepathy) and could live for hundreds of years. The way she described it was that they'd age normally until they hit a certain point unique to each person, and then just stop aging. One character in the book was jealous of his nephew, since his nephew stopped aging at like 30 and the main character had stopped aging at like 50. Even though they were both really old, he'd forever appear older since he looked older.
Good books. Julian May has a whole bunch of em that I haven't read, but I get the impression from other people who've read them that the ideas are similar in all of her books. Just sorta stuff that takes a lot of creativity to think up, ya know? At one point a mother is able to speak to her unborn child through telepathy. She can also send the baby pictures of the outside world, through thought sharing... really neat ideas. Good for a read.
Comments
I guess anyone's point of view on immortality is based strongly on their religion. I, being a LaVayan Satanist, would enjoy immortality to it's fullest. All of the worlds treasures exist here in your existence right now as opposed to having something to look forward to post mortem. Christians, however may frown on the idea of immortality due their foresight into the paradise of the afterlife. They may view immortality as a punishment, or a cage where their souls are kept captive for their wrongs. Imo, immortality would be a brilliant thing, given how the world is now, and sans the ability to 'warp the fabric of your surroundings'. There's just so much to do in life that is cannot be packed into the give-or-take 100 years we have to be alive.
BTW: I lol'ed at Geoko's foxnews comment :]
But replacing the mind with artificial components piece by piece might be the answer. Apparently your body does this all the time, as molecules in your brain are replaced with new ones. Essentially you get a new brain every so often, and though you could argue the opposite, I still think that I'm the same person, despite having had a new brain several times over.
So by replacing your brain piece by piece, you could retain your own consciousness throughout the procedure, and still be conscious after your brain was fully replaced. Problem solved, true immortality is possible.
Unfortunately, I won't be around to take advantage of it... but I'm happy for future populations.
But that's been mostly addressed too... still, I think that a normal life would beat out a life that goes on (for just about) forever. Maybe I'm too much of a romantic, but growing old with someone I love and raising my children to a ripe old age and watching things develop in my personal bubble of the universe (as short as it may be in the big scheme of things) sounds like a good plan. I might perhaps accept an extended life, maybe like living for 2 centuries or something like that... but aging just seems 'right' to me, and I think when I'm really old and if my partner is just as old as I am (or already dead), I think I could welcome death in remembrance of my time on Earth.
Go ahead, call me old fashioned for enjoying things the way they are now. I accept that my views may be seen as immature or boring, but I think that's the way I prefer it. While I say that I would prefer my short, 80-some year life, I understand that tons of people would accept the chance to see much much more in their extended lifetime; I would prefer to just hear about the future rather than wait so many years for that time to come around, and if I can't have either of those, then I would say that I'm fine right now.
Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind in a few years; right now I'm satisfied with the idea of an average yet long and finite life. Not everyone hates their death, as long as they think they've lived a good life...
Silly metalhead, gambling's for fools!
And I also realize that I'm wishing for immortality when I'm in my 20s, and I haven't lived that long. I might be wishing for death when I get to my 90s, and not from health reasons, but just because I'm tired of living.
Well said, my friend. I couldn't have said it betterer.
B] You could think of your moment-to-moment existence as a near-infinite string of consciousness copy-pastes. Do you get what I'm trying to say here? I've read the argument that it's scary to upload yourself to a computer, because the original dies, but I've always thought of it thusly: From moment to moment, your mind is never the same. The me NOW is not the me a moment ago who is not the me two moments ago, ad infinitum. The person who lived in my body yesterday? He is dead and I only have a memory of him. He wasn't afraid to go, just like the me NOW isn't afraid to go into the next moment.
Me NOW won't exist in a second, or in a minute. He'll be dead. A new me will replace him. He won't be the same person, but it's not scary. I'll be effectively 'dead', but I'll be replaced with a better approximation of myself. Still...it's not scary.
With the uploaded-to-a-computer-scenario, it is overwhelming at first, yeah. My main thought is that I'll go to sleep, and never wake up, and then a copy of me will be running around...but I won't know about it because I'll be dead.
But then I think that this happens every night. When I wake up, me NOW will be dead, and replaced with a copy.
The main hurdle seems to be transferring my apathy from the every-day occurrence to the one-time computer upload.
C] I know I skimmed over some folks posts here and thought, "What?" about a few of them. Did anyone get this way about mine? I kind of just *vomited* my brain onto the page.
D] Lauren...your EYES...
There are a good number of types of satanist such as, but not limited to, LaVeyan, Spiritual, and Luciferian. It all depends on the set of beliefs, and how they differ from each other. Ex. Luciferian satanists believe in Satan as A being such as christians believe it god as a being, whereas LaVeyan satanists (Named after Anton LaVey) Believe in Satan as a picture of our beliefs as opposed to like a deity.
Hope that cleared some things up xD
Do some research if you really wanna learn more.
Basically I would like to live up to the time I am ready to die.
I can imagine that after a few hundred years I'd become a reclusive observer of the world. I'd stop caring about lives and the only thing that would interest me is seeing how the world plays out. Seeing if decisions made in the present ever turned out for the best or watching nations collapse and rebuild over time. Even if immortality came with group of friends and loved ones that were also immortal, I can't imagine that changing much other than there'd be a bunch of people distancing themselves from humanity. I really don't want to be that kind of person, but I don't think I'm strong enough to avoid becoming like that after a few centuries. I can't even imagine what I'd be like in 10,000 years
Maybe I'm just not ambitious enough. If I had a to-do list for my life right now, I don't think there'd be much on it. Raise a family, see some other countries, learn some awesome skills, there's nothing I really want to do that can't be accomplished in one lifetime. That could easily change in the coming years but I think at the end of my lifetime I'll be content.
What if some people were able to live for a few centuries? Let's say that you just simply age more slowly than normal people, and you can live a nice four or five centuries of life, barring any accidents. You're still as fragile and as vulnerable as everyone else; a car accident or a gunshot might kill you just as easily.
Furthermore, it is not just you. Other people, although rare, are born with this genetic anomaly. You can't tell by looking at someone on the street, but there are enough people to where if you had the patience, you could potentially seek out other centurions like you, once people figured out they weren't aging at the same rate as their peers.
What would you all say to that? Would an extended lifespan of a couple hundred years be more tempting?
I dunno man, the first 80 years would be rough.
But in that situation, we'd all be running around with broadswords trying to decapitate each other. A long-lived life full of fear of death by decapitation doesn't sound all that great to me.
Oh, hm, never thought of that. Um, for the sake of argument, let's say you age like everyone else for the first 20 years or so, and then you start aging much more slowly. Again, all other body processes are fine, you just age slowly for a few hundred years.
And I do like the 'living for a few centuries' idea... I just wonder if, even at the end of those centuries, I still would not want to die. But it's better than just one century.
Good books. Julian May has a whole bunch of em that I haven't read, but I get the impression from other people who've read them that the ideas are similar in all of her books. Just sorta stuff that takes a lot of creativity to think up, ya know? At one point a mother is able to speak to her unborn child through telepathy. She can also send the baby pictures of the outside world, through thought sharing... really neat ideas. Good for a read.