A nice sentiment, but not based in reality. Fuck, the entire Olympic coverage in the United States has been politically charged, framing it as Capitalism vs. Communism as if this were 1980. And what does some athletic events mean if you feel that what you're protesting is a tantamount issue of human rights? Again, I'm not arguing anything about this specific protest.
Oh yay, there has been good discussion on both sides! Time to start commenting.
Kukopanki, yes there are meaningful protests, but in almost all circumstances they are done by the people who are affected. If there is change, the people must want it.
I say that these protesters are uneducated about the situation, because I believe that if they truly understood the situation, they wouldn't be protesting. It's not that Tibet should be free or should stay a part of China; it's that frankly it's none of our goddamn business. Tibet is China's issue. Not America's. Not Europe's. Not anyone's.
Americans and other Westerners think that they truly understand the issues. They've heard the news, they've read the reports, and they think they truly understand because their news agency isn't government run, and the irony is so goddamn thick that I can't breathe. If government run news is on one extreme, private enterprise news is on the other. Western news sites for the most part get money by selling papers or increasing viewership, and they don't do that with mediocre news. So they cling to exciting or controversial ideas and beat the dead horse.
The truth is an elusive sonbitch, but it usually exists somewhere in the middle.
I've talked with a lot of Chinese about it. Every single one of them believes Tibet is a part of China, and it should stay that way. It's not just because of their news; it's because it's part of their history. China is a diverse country with hundreds of individual dialects and sub-cultures, yet they consider them all brothers and sisters, all part of China. Losing Tibet acknowledges losing part of their family, losing a sizeable chunk of their history which they are so proud of. Here, it's not political, it's emotional.
So pretend you have an deep seeded, emotional, cultural investment in an issue. Then, some upstart college kids who think they know everything barge into your country and start telling you how to run your own culture and political scene. People who have never bothered to learn your language tell you that they know best, and that when they tell you to discard part of your rich culture, you should listen to them. I'd be pretty pissed off too.
Let's make a hypothetical situation. The southwest area of the US, particularly Texas and California, are heavily Latino, many areas being moreso than whites. Now let's say that because they have their own unique Mexican culture, they want the whole southwest area to become independent from the US, because their culture is different. Most Americans would be loathe to give up Texas and California. Then, let's say that some Europeans, who have absolutely no relation to this, came into our country, only for a short while, to protest America's refusal to acknowledge their freedom? Wouldn't we, as Americans, get pissed off and think, "Who the flying fuck are you guys to tell us how to handle this?"
That's pretty much the sentiment here. The hypothetical I made up is not entirely perfect, but I think it gets the idea across.
And THAT'S why I get pissed off at protesters like that. They don't know. They don't think.
Double posting because the first post is too long.
I am also against protesting against the Olympics, because it mocks what they stand for. Normally, I don't like watching sports, because I think they are incredibly boring. But the Olympics are different. I like watching them because I like what they stand for. They stand for people from all over the world getting together to learn and experience different culture, and to do so through playing games that are universally understood throughout the world.
To me, they represent peace and harmony, which is something that our world very badly needs. To have people politically protesting during the Olympics specifically because it's the Olympics is a disgusting perversion of everything they stand for. We as a civilized race should be able to set aside all our differences for just two weeks once every two years and just be friendly. Because politics don't matter to the Olympians. Or if they do, they don't matter anywhere near as much as the chance to compete against the best people in the world.
It bugged me, so I had to say it.. "deep seeded"... the actual phrase is "deep-seated" as in it's seated deeply within oneself. I'm pretty sure, anyway.
Really? Deep-seeded would make mores sense to me, as in a seed deep in the ground that has bloomed and flourished over time. But this is your area of expertise.
Excuse me while I go nurse my wounds, I ache from being served.
Jakey, why does everything have to go back to porn with you? Get your mind out of the gutter. Seriously, do you even think before you ejaculate like that? I want you to think very long, and very hard about what you say, because the things you do often penetrate deep within me. You're stuck, and you need to pull out, shake yourself dry, and get out fast.
I wish the Olympics had LESS politics involved-- they do, and it's pretty hard to try to deny it. It isn't that bad, and I still enjoy watching, but some of the calls, I end up thinking "Weeellll I don't know about that, but okay."
And Serephel, you make a good point. Thinking of my reaction if people came to MY country to tell me what to do, I'd probably just disregard anything they said even it WAS true, just from the audacity of their actions.
I say that these protesters are uneducated about the situation, because I believe that if they truly understood the situation, they wouldn't be protesting.
(...)
And THAT'S why I get pissed off at protesters like that. They don't know. They don't think.
I already acknowledged that I don't know much about the issue and that it could be something that they have no right to protest about in a foreign country, but I think you're being a bit too prejudiced here. You're basically saying that they are ignorant of the issues because they disagree with you; otherwise, they would agree with you. Isn't that like saying there's one truth only and that everyone who doesn't see it is just uneducated about it?
Also, as Behemoth said, my name is Roberto. You can shorten it to Rob, Robbie, Bob or Tito.
Okay, I admit I am being a little prejudiced when I said that. Let me tweak my arguments (thanks for keeping me on my toes!)
I should elaborate on my first statement, that protests should be done by the people whom are directly affected. The people who are affected have to want the change, and the truth is that most people don't want the change.
I'm not saying that I know more about the issues. I'm saying that I acknowledge the fact that I am ignorant about them.
I know very little about the Ecuadorian situation, but how would you feel if other foreigners came in and started protesting the students, believing that the new constitution referendum was the best? How would the government feel if other foreigners joined you in their protests, even if they have no direct involvement?
I'm sorry, I really should have been more specific with my protest statements. Sometimes I forget that America doesn't have the same governmental problems as the other parts of the world, and that protests in some areas are absolutely necessary. I know the political landscapes in South America are more volatile, and protests are very different there. I don't mean to belittle what you and your people are doing in Ecuador.
I am being more involved in this particular situation, because the protests do affect me. China's and America's political friendship is shaky, and it's only really staying together because we'll both die economically without each other. I am an ambassador to my country, and so is everyone else who visits. When one of them fucks up and angers the country, it reflects poorly on all of us, and it affects people who actually live here, like me.
The two main factors here in the Chinese protests are involvement and public opinion. The American protesters are not directly, or even indirectly, involved in any of the China/Tibetan issues. They protest because they believe in it. And they go against public opinion, because the vast majority of people believe in a unified country. That's why it pisses people off here. There's the whole cultural investment I wrote about earlier.
And I can say that every American I know who actually does know Chinese and is familiar with Chinese history and culture know enough to stay way the fuck away from Tibet, because they've come to the same opinion I have: it's none of our business.
Comments
Kukopanki, yes there are meaningful protests, but in almost all circumstances they are done by the people who are affected. If there is change, the people must want it.
I say that these protesters are uneducated about the situation, because I believe that if they truly understood the situation, they wouldn't be protesting. It's not that Tibet should be free or should stay a part of China; it's that frankly it's none of our goddamn business. Tibet is China's issue. Not America's. Not Europe's. Not anyone's.
Americans and other Westerners think that they truly understand the issues. They've heard the news, they've read the reports, and they think they truly understand because their news agency isn't government run, and the irony is so goddamn thick that I can't breathe. If government run news is on one extreme, private enterprise news is on the other. Western news sites for the most part get money by selling papers or increasing viewership, and they don't do that with mediocre news. So they cling to exciting or controversial ideas and beat the dead horse.
The truth is an elusive sonbitch, but it usually exists somewhere in the middle.
I've talked with a lot of Chinese about it. Every single one of them believes Tibet is a part of China, and it should stay that way. It's not just because of their news; it's because it's part of their history. China is a diverse country with hundreds of individual dialects and sub-cultures, yet they consider them all brothers and sisters, all part of China. Losing Tibet acknowledges losing part of their family, losing a sizeable chunk of their history which they are so proud of. Here, it's not political, it's emotional.
So pretend you have an deep seeded, emotional, cultural investment in an issue. Then, some upstart college kids who think they know everything barge into your country and start telling you how to run your own culture and political scene. People who have never bothered to learn your language tell you that they know best, and that when they tell you to discard part of your rich culture, you should listen to them. I'd be pretty pissed off too.
Let's make a hypothetical situation. The southwest area of the US, particularly Texas and California, are heavily Latino, many areas being moreso than whites. Now let's say that because they have their own unique Mexican culture, they want the whole southwest area to become independent from the US, because their culture is different. Most Americans would be loathe to give up Texas and California. Then, let's say that some Europeans, who have absolutely no relation to this, came into our country, only for a short while, to protest America's refusal to acknowledge their freedom? Wouldn't we, as Americans, get pissed off and think, "Who the flying fuck are you guys to tell us how to handle this?"
That's pretty much the sentiment here. The hypothetical I made up is not entirely perfect, but I think it gets the idea across.
And THAT'S why I get pissed off at protesters like that. They don't know. They don't think.
I am also against protesting against the Olympics, because it mocks what they stand for. Normally, I don't like watching sports, because I think they are incredibly boring. But the Olympics are different. I like watching them because I like what they stand for. They stand for people from all over the world getting together to learn and experience different culture, and to do so through playing games that are universally understood throughout the world.
To me, they represent peace and harmony, which is something that our world very badly needs. To have people politically protesting during the Olympics specifically because it's the Olympics is a disgusting perversion of everything they stand for. We as a civilized race should be able to set aside all our differences for just two weeks once every two years and just be friendly. Because politics don't matter to the Olympians. Or if they do, they don't matter anywhere near as much as the chance to compete against the best people in the world.
Excuse me while I go nurse my wounds, I ache from being served.
And Serephel, you make a good point. Thinking of my reaction if people came to MY country to tell me what to do, I'd probably just disregard anything they said even it WAS true, just from the audacity of their actions.
I already acknowledged that I don't know much about the issue and that it could be something that they have no right to protest about in a foreign country, but I think you're being a bit too prejudiced here. You're basically saying that they are ignorant of the issues because they disagree with you; otherwise, they would agree with you. Isn't that like saying there's one truth only and that everyone who doesn't see it is just uneducated about it?
Also, as Behemoth said, my name is Roberto. You can shorten it to Rob, Robbie, Bob or Tito.
Okay, I admit I am being a little prejudiced when I said that. Let me tweak my arguments (thanks for keeping me on my toes!)
I should elaborate on my first statement, that protests should be done by the people whom are directly affected. The people who are affected have to want the change, and the truth is that most people don't want the change.
I'm not saying that I know more about the issues. I'm saying that I acknowledge the fact that I am ignorant about them.
I know very little about the Ecuadorian situation, but how would you feel if other foreigners came in and started protesting the students, believing that the new constitution referendum was the best? How would the government feel if other foreigners joined you in their protests, even if they have no direct involvement?
I'm sorry, I really should have been more specific with my protest statements. Sometimes I forget that America doesn't have the same governmental problems as the other parts of the world, and that protests in some areas are absolutely necessary. I know the political landscapes in South America are more volatile, and protests are very different there. I don't mean to belittle what you and your people are doing in Ecuador.
I am being more involved in this particular situation, because the protests do affect me. China's and America's political friendship is shaky, and it's only really staying together because we'll both die economically without each other. I am an ambassador to my country, and so is everyone else who visits. When one of them fucks up and angers the country, it reflects poorly on all of us, and it affects people who actually live here, like me.
The two main factors here in the Chinese protests are involvement and public opinion. The American protesters are not directly, or even indirectly, involved in any of the China/Tibetan issues. They protest because they believe in it. And they go against public opinion, because the vast majority of people believe in a unified country. That's why it pisses people off here. There's the whole cultural investment I wrote about earlier.
And I can say that every American I know who actually does know Chinese and is familiar with Chinese history and culture know enough to stay way the fuck away from Tibet, because they've come to the same opinion I have: it's none of our business.