The right to vote

SerephelSerephel
edited November 2009 in General
I read an interesting article in the Economist this week about prisoners and the right to vote. What does everyone here think? Should prisoners have the right to vote, as voting should be an inalienable right of democracy? Or should they lose it, because choosing to not play by society's rules means you shouldn't get to help shape it?

Discuss.

Comments

  • SilverwardSilverward
    edited October 2009
    I'm of the school of thought that a felon shouldn't have a say in forming the laws they broke.
  • illithid235illithid235
    edited October 2009
    I'm gonna go ahead and say that prisoners should get the right to vote... there are some slippery-slope scenarios that I can envision that certainly border on conspiracy theories, but really, if the prison population is big enough that the vote can be majorly swayed by their votes, there might be too many people in prison and things might need to change. Also, I don't think that all the laws we have in place and all the acts that label one a felon are necessarily good. I don't think you should go to jail for possession of marijuana. And if prisoners can't vote, there goes a large part of the pro-marijuana section of the population and so the status quo is just a little bit stronger.

    I dunno, I'm not completely wedded to a single idea. I'm curious as to what others think.
  • Professor MacJakeProfessor MacJake
    edited October 2009
    Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment:

    Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

    The Supreme Court invokes this Civil War-era amendment in Richardson v. Ramirez as justification for felony disenfranchisement. But the question is what "other crime" really means. Should it only relate to the Civil War? I think it does, and I think that felons who otherwise don't lose their citizenship should retain all other rights associated with it, including their explicit constitutional rights, and the right to vote. That's a democracy for you.
  • Drooling IguanaDrooling Iguana
    edited October 2009
    Professor MacJake wrote: »
    Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment:
    This is a discussion forum, not a courtroom, so I'm not sure what purpose quoting a legal document is supposed to serve. We're arguing about what's right, not what's legal.

    Back to the main topic, in many cases the people who don't fit into the current form of society are the ones who's voices are most needed to be heard. There's a mindset that says "If they can't play by the rules than fuck 'em" but one of the main purposes to democracy is to give people the opportunity to change the rules if they no longer work in their best interest.
  • SerephelSerephel
    edited October 2009
    The problem with prisoners is that they can also suffer from the same ratchet effect as sex offenders as I described a while back. Incoming politicians, in efforts to secure votes, play on knee jerk reactions to add further laws and regulations to issues that no longer need them.

    The ratchet effect is best seen in states like Florida, where even after being released from prison and serving your time to society, your right to vote is never returned. Approximately 1/3 of all blacks in Florida are not allowed to vote because of this, and it is well known that higher percentages of blacks are incarcerated than whites. This ratio of blacks who cannot vote still applies to the 2000 Presidential Election. How do you think Florida would have gone had 1/3 of all its black citizens could have voted?
  • shakeycatshakeycat
    edited October 2009
    Can prison be its own riding, and elect their own MP?
  • brucebruce
    edited October 2009
    They broke their social contract, so they can't vote. That's what Locke would say.
  • SerephelSerephel
    edited October 2009
    I thought Locke was a treasure hunter.
  • X'o'LoreX'o'Lore
    edited October 2009
    Sure, but I suspect Bruce is talking about the other Locke.

    I voted yes for the same sort of reasons as others here mentioned. Prisoners in many cases may know things first hand that more law-abiding types don't having been dragged through the legal system. They may very well have very legitimate views on what should change. Sure there's always those that you wouldn't really want to vote, but then there's a hell of a lot of people who can and do vote who we'd also mostly be happier to see not vote.
  • Professor MacJakeProfessor MacJake
    edited October 2009
    Drooling Iguana wrote: »
    This is a discussion forum, not a courtroom, so I'm not sure what purpose quoting a legal document is supposed to serve. We're arguing about what's right, not what's legal.

    :objection:

    It serves the purpose of showing how I misconstrued what we were discussing, clearly.
  • AgentcelAgentcel
    edited October 2009
    I'd have to say gve them the right to vote, because if there's any innocent people in jail for whatever reason, that'd suck to not be able to vote. But as for legit criminals, I'm not sure.
  • BehemothBehemoth
    edited October 2009
    I'd have to say don't punish anybody, because if there's any innocent people in jail for whatever reason, that'd suck to not be free. But as for legit criminals, I'm not sure.

    I think we have to assume that they're all guilty, otherwise the whole system breaks down.
  • DrLeopoldStrabismusDrLeopoldStrabismus
    edited November 2009
    What exactly is the rule? If you've served a prison sentence then you're not allowed to vote? Or is it just if you've committed a felony? What is a felony even? I don't know too much about this subject.
  • SerephelSerephel
    edited November 2009
    I believe it varies state by state, but most (maybe all, haven't done the legwork) do not have the right to vote while they are incarcerated. Now a couple states prohibit prisoners from ever voting again, even after they have served their prison time, aka their "debt to society". Despite trying to continue with their lives, even if they are trying to make a better life for themselves, they still cannot regain their right to vote.
  • SilverwardSilverward
    edited November 2009
    I can't speak for any other state, but it's only felons who can't vote in North Dakota

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