Politics, Conspiracy, Intrigue...

edited July 19 in Politics
Anybody up for dead-end discussion of issues with a political slant?
Like saaaaay, how about that health care bill? It seems to be considered a big deal. I don't know the details. Is it a big deal or is it just a point of pointless political parrying?

Comments

  • edited March 2010
    From what I can tell it is a pretty big deal because starting in 2014 everyone will be required to have at least some form of health insurance. However, from what I can tell people can get a government-supported healthcare option that will only cost them a percentage of their income, which is great. And, of course, you can be exempt from this requirement if it would cause you undue financial hardship. I have a limited perspective, but I can't think of anyone who would get pissed that they are (mostly) required to have some form of health care.

    Also, it requires insurance companies to do a lot of things that I think are pretty cool. For instance, the new laws prevent insurance companies from denying service to sick clients or those with preexisting health issues. EVERYONE can get health insurance through this new law and at affordable prices.

    However, from what I understand, the downside of all this is a question of where the money is coming from. I think I read that this change will cost us nearly a trillion dollars, which will probably be borrowed from other nations and further raise our debt.

    So I'm a bit divided. I like what these laws are doing. They fit my overall belief that we SHOULD be trying to help out our fellow citizens in upholding a basic standard of life. But can we afford to at this point? Should we be increasing our debt to get there? Of course, I also wonder if we might pay for this by taking a portion of the defense budget. What IS the defense budget, and what percentage of the defense budget would have to be moved to cover this? Like 10%? Less? How important is it that the armed forces continue to get the same amount of money that HAS been coming to them? Are there other things we could remove to get to this point?
  • edited March 2010
    I'm obviously for this, although I still think the best system is one where healthcare is free at the point of need paid for by a contribution from wages.
  • edited March 2010
    I think the best solution was and still is to share the secret immortality potion locked deep in the CIA archives 30 miles beneath Mount Rushmore. BUT ONLY WITH THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT, NO SOCIALIST HANDOUTS.
  • edited March 2010
    I'm just pissed that I have to hear the phrase "Slippery Slope" every day until I die now.
  • godgod
    edited March 2010
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319
    This summarizes what the reform will change and when those changes will take place. Want to get a more personal idea of what it means?
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/?nav=most_emailed
    However, from what I understand, the downside of all this is a question of where the money is coming from. I think I read that this change will cost us nearly a trillion dollars, which will probably be borrowed from other nations and further raise our debt.

    The Congressional Budget Office actually predicts that this will save the US $138 billion between now and 2019. This is assuming all the taxes that are to be put in place actually are.

    http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=524
    I also wonder if we might pay for this by taking a portion of the defense budget. What IS the defense budget, and what percentage of the defense budget would have to be moved to cover this?

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/24/fact.check.pentagon.irpt/index.html?hpt=C2
    The defense budget for 2010 is $531 billion, with $708 billion being requested for 2011. To give you some idea of how grossly inflated that is, China's budget for 2008 was estimated by the Pentagon to be between $105 and $150 billion. If we look at our own spending in 2001, it was a (relatively) small $297 billion. People may argue that this spending creates jobs, that to cut spending would cut jobs, and that this spending is ultimately to our benefit. However, if we instead spent that money to promote the creation of jobs in the US, we wouldn't lose jobs, and we would produce something useful. People always seem to encourage the purchase of domestically manufactured goods, why not promote that manufacture?
  • edited March 2010
    /thread

    23519_10150138733970285_724815284_1.jpg
  • edited March 2010
    While we're on the subject of things we'll be hearing for the rest of our lives, I love the line that anyone who will benefit from this legislation is either lazy, a minority (who by default doesn't deserve help), or for some other reason doesn't deserve it because "everyone has all the same opportunities that I had." My favorite comment: "Yeah, this law is so awesome, now I'm going to have to pay every time Jamal or Jose has an ear infection."
  • godgod
    edited March 2010
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-03-22/scary-new-gop-poll/?cid=hp:exc
    On the heels of health care, a new Harris poll reveals Republican attitudes about Obama: Two-thirds think he's a socialist, 57 percent a Muslim—and 24 percent say "he may be the Antichrist."

    To anyone who thinks the end of the health-care vote means a return to civility, wake up.

    Obama Derangement Syndrome—pathological hatred of the president posing as patriotism—has infected the Republican Party. Here's new data to prove it:
    67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist.

    The belief that Obama is a “domestic enemy” is widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come.
    57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
    45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president"
    38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
    Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."

    These numbers all come from a brand-new Harris poll, inspired in part by my new book Wingnuts. It demonstrates the cost of the campaign of fear and hate that has been pumped up in the service of hyper-partisanship over the past 15 months. We are playing with dynamite by demonizing our president and dividing the United States in the process. What might be good for ratings is bad for the country.

    The poll, which surveyed 2,230 people right at the height of the health-care reform debate, also clearly shows that education is a barrier to extremism. Respondents without a college education are vastly more likely to believe such claims, while Americans with college degrees or better are less easily duped. It's a reminder of what the 19th-century educator Horace Mann once too-loftily said: "Ignorance breeds monsters to fill up the vacancies of the soul that are unoccupied by the verities of knowledge."

    The full results of the poll, which will be released in greater detail tomorrow, are even more frightening: including news that high percentages of Republicans—and Americans overall—believe that President Obama is "racist," "anti-American" "wants the terrorists to win" and "wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one-world government." The "Hatriot" belief that Obama is a "domestic enemy" as set forth in the Constitution is also widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come. It's the same claim made by Marine Lance Corporal Kody Brittingham in his letter of intent to assassinate the President Obama.

    This poll is the latest and most detailed evidence of the extent to which Wingnuts are hijacking our politics. It should be a wakeup call to all Americans and a collective reminder, as we move past health-care reform, that we need to stand up to extremism.

    Fourteen percent of the country thinks Obama might be the antichrist. I don't even think I can wrap my head around their ignorance.
  • edited March 2010
    On a serious note, I have approached this bill with what could be best described as cautious optimism. The previous status quo was far from acceptable, and anybody who thought so is either delusional or in an income bracket that has never worried about being able to pay their bills. This isn't to say that the quality of American health care isn't good; many of the best hospitals and medical research facilities in the world are in the US. However, the majority of Americans just cannot afford to go to them.

    Change is now possible, and more people have the potential to be given access to health care. I'm sure just about everyone here has a family member or a friend who has had to wrestle with insurance companies over payments and services allowed under health plans. In a country that can spend over $700 billion a year (that we know of) on its military, it's beyond inexcusable that we cannot take care of our own people.

    On a personal note, I am looking forward to insurance companies no longer being able to drop customers or refuse coverage to those with "pre-existing conditions" (an illness or other medical issue before coming onto an insurance plan). The theory behind this was that if insurance companies did not reject people with pre-existing conditions, then customers would have no incentive to pay for insurance when they weren't sick; they could sign onto a plan a few weeks before requiring surgery, and then hop off when they were cured. Rinse and repeat. This makes sense. However, with the legal mandate that everybody be covered, this should hopefully circumvent this concern.

    To look at my odd situation, when I was young I used to have some serious medical issues. However, I was lucky, I was cured, and now I'm fine and dandy. Nevertheless, I have still been paying for health insurance continuously during the two years I've been living in China. Why? Because of the pre-existing conditions clause. I've had insurance since before my health issues, so the insurance company has been forced to cover me ever since. However, if I ever have a lapse in coverage, then when I get re-covered the insurance firms can all claim my health issues as pre-existing conditions, and then subsequently refuse to cover me. So, I'm paying about $2000 bucks a year for US health insurance, despite the fact that I cannot use it in China and that I already have domestic Chinese insurance taken out of my paycheck here every month. And I don't even bother with insurance here for normal stuff anyways, since the last time I went to the best hospital in town and visited an English fluent doctor in their special rich foreigner wing and got western style medication prescribed to me, it cost me a grand total of $40 bucks, uninsured. But because I intend to settle down in the US and raise a family eventually, I have needed to continue paying for it, or else I seriously risk never being able to reobtain coverage when I go back.

    Ideally, this law should mean that I can stop paying for it until I move back to the US, then reobtain coverage since I can't be rejected based on pre-existing conditions. Then again, I wonder if I'm still required to pay for insurance by US law despite the fact that I'm not in the US for more than one or two weeks in a year. Hmm...
  • edited March 2010
    Can I discuss the UK budget in here too? Big shit is apparently gonna go down when it's announced today!
  • edited March 2010
    DO IT
  • edited March 2010
    A pretty boring budget, actually. Ideas stolen from the Tories plus indirect tax increases. I was expecting more volatile stuff :(
  • edited March 2010
    I couldn't watch it on BBC. The Brits are a narcissistic bunch, and they won't stream to China. Asses.
  • edited March 2010
    DOUBLE POST CAUSE I'M AWESOME

    GOP Amendment: No Viagra for Sex Offenders
    As part of their effort to slow (or even stop) passage of the bill that would make changes to the health care legislation signed into law by President Obama Tuesday, Senate Republicans have vowed to introduce hundreds of amendments.

    One part of that strategy is to offer amendments on which Democrats would be hard-pressed to cast a "no" vote. If the Senate makes any amendments to the legislation, it has to go back to the House -- a possibility that Democrats are hoping to avoid.

    GOP Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma today released a list of the nine amendments he has filed, and right at the top is a clear illustration of the strategy -- an amendment entitled "No Erectile Dysfunction Drugs To Sex Offenders." Here's how it's described:
    "This amendment would enact recommendations from the Government Accountability Office to stop fraudulent payments for prescription drugs prescribed by dead providers or, to dead patients. This amendment also prohibits coverage of Viagra and other ED medications to convicted child molesters, rapists, and sex offenders, and prohibits coverage of abortion drugs."

    By opposing that amendment, Democrats are, at least in theory, opening themselves up to charges that they support using government money to provide sex offenders with Viagra -- surely an unpopular position if ever there was one.

    Other amendments on Coburn's list are designed to undercut Democrats' claims about what the bill will do - see amendment #5, "If You Like the Health Plan You Have, You Can Keep It." Coburn's third amendment says simply, "Congress Should Not Lecture Americans About Fiscal Responsibility."

    Senate Democratic leaders are pressing their members not to break ranks and support Republican amendments (or introduce amendments of their own) in order to get the bill passed as soon as possible. In a statement, AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka made that same argument.

    "Any amendment offered during this process is nothing more than a poison pill," he said. "A 'NO' on amendments is a 'YES' on health care."
  • edited March 2010
    So, if we're talking politics and intrigue, has anyone heard of the whole David Frum fiasco?

    David Frum, a conservative blogger and one of Bush's speechwriters, made this post about a week ago.

    He was fired the day after. Here's two articles about it. (Props to Ryan for finding all of this)

    What do you all think? Is he just a RINO who secretly seeks to tear down the Republican party to allow socialism into our government? Or is he a guy who was cut out of the Republican party for thinking too much?
  • godgod
    edited March 2010
    Well, I can't say I know too much about his political views, but based on his post it sounds like he holds the values of the old Republican party above those of the current one. So it sounds like a little of both, he's a bit of a RINO by todays standards, questioned their absolutist policies they've adopted, and was fired as a result.

    I'm inclined to agree with him, it seems like the Republican party is being led less by politicians and more by pundits pushing it to irrational extremes. I feel this could potentially continue to the point where enough voters are alienated by their policies that the party will not be able to function as anything more than a minor party. If that were to happen, hopefully a new, less radical party will take its place, because a single-party state can't be good, no matter what party is in charge.

    Edit: I suppose another possibility is that the Tea Party could break off into their own party, isolating their bigoted, zealous, conspiracy theorist ideas from what I hope to be a more reasonable majority.
  • edited April 2010
    From Frumforum

    How the GOP Purged Me

    The entire entry is pretty long, but here's a selection:
    I voted for Nixon and for Reagan. Although I did not like the deficit spending of the Reagan administration, I blamed it on and rationalized it by the necessities of fighting the Cold War. I liked Reagan — who didn’t? Even my Democrat and liberal friends liked and respected him. I voted for Clinton, twice. I thought he was the best Republican president since Ike. No, I did not make a mistake. Bill Clinton was closer ideologically to Eisenhower and Nixon than Bush I and II could ever be. I thought that Clinton practiced and articulated true Republican ideology in his fiscal discipline, job creation, smart tax cuts, and foreign policy better than anyone since Ike.

    Then something happened in the 1990s. The leaders of the GOP grew belligerent. They became too religious, almost zealots. They became intolerant. They began searching for purity in Republican thought and doctrine. Ideology blinded them. I continued to vote Republican, but with a certain unease. Deep down I knew that a schism happened between the modern Republican Party and the one I grew up with. During the fight over the impeachment of President Clinton, the ugly face of the Republican Party was brought to the surface. Empty rhetoric, ideological intolerance, vengeance, and religious zealotry became the common currency. Suddenly, if you are pro-choice, you could not be a Republican. If you are for smart and sensible taxes to balance out the budget, you could not be a Republican. If you are pro-civil rights, you could not be a Republican.
  • edited April 2010
    New topic!

    The new big news item is the treaty that Obama wants to get passed with Russia to reduce the amount of nukes we both have. However, to get it passed, it's going to have to go through the Senate, and at least one Republican is going to have to vote for this treaty for it to go through.

    Now, I'm not totally knowledgeable about the power dynamics that come with nuclear weapons, but this seems pretty good to me... the two big cold war contenders are getting together and agreeing to reduce their nuclear stockpile.

    But, we know how the Republican party has been for the past year or so. So, what do you people think? Will the Republican party shut this one down just because they can? Are they justified in doing so?
  • edited April 2010
    I don't think it's as simple as "Hey, getting rid of these nukes is awesome you guys". I'm sure both parties will try and pull really lame shit like put extra things in the bill in order to guilt the other party into voting/not voting for it.
  • edited April 2010
    "A nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought. And no matter how great the obstacles may seem, we must never stop our efforts to reduce the weapons of war. We must never stop at all until we see the day when nuclear arms have been banished from the face of this Earth."

    I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck that the Republicans will oppose it, because they're riding the anti-Obama wave. However, it is important to remind them of the above quote. This flowerpower hippie quote came from Ronald Reagan in 1984.
  • edited April 2010
    There's another quote:
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick"

    Reduction is good. The only issue I'd have is that if we got rid of them entirely, there's no threat of retaliation to other countries that might have an unreasonable hate for the US and be crazy enough to use nuclear arms if they got them.

    The day may come when we don't need them, and one can only hope they remain all threat and no action until then, but this isn't going to be that day anyway. This is apparently just a reduction.

    I'd hate to see the Republican party make up some excuse to oppose this. The "conservative" news sounds suspiciously extreme these days. The way they talk you'd think Obama personally went to each of their houses and kicked their dogs.
  • edited April 2010
    I just watched WarGames for the first time, so I am currently inclined to believe that someday soon a teenager will hack into the government computer that controls our entire nuclear arsenal and start WW3. I say we get rid of our arsenal, if only to save ourselves from a supercomputer.

    But really, I believe that downsizing is a good idea, completely removing it is a bad idea. I think the only function of our nuclear arsenal right now is to scare off anyone who thinks they could get away with launching an attack as us without them (and the rest of the planet) dying too. I'm pretty sure that no one intends to actually use nukes offensively, so I see no problem with getting rid of some so long as its primary function is served.
  • edited April 2010
    The problem with reduction is the effect it can have on our allies. No country in the world is going to start a nuclear war with the US, because the US has more than enough nukes to glass anyone who tries. However, our allies are protected under a nuclear umbrella, which basically states that if someone nukes them, we'll nuke their attackers in response. So, when we cut back on our stash, our allies will start to get slightly more concerned.

    From my side of the world, this is an area of interest. Japan and South Korea are very interested in keeping America's nuclear umbrella strong. While North Korea only has a couple of nukes at best, China is estimated to have a couple hundred or so, in addition to a very modernized military. And I believe areas of Europe are under the umbrella too from threats from Russia and possibly Iran in the next few years.

    The entire point of nukes is to create "mutually assured destruction". Before them, generals and leaders could go to war with other countries under the assumption that they could win without an unacceptable amount of lives lost. Now there is no point in going to war with a nuclear armed country, because they can completely destroy an attacking country within hours.

    HOWEVER. The more nukes you have, the higher the chances of one getting into the hands of a stateless group of warmongers (Al Qaeda for example). Because they do not technically belong to any one nation, they do not have to worry about "mutually assured destruction". This is what makes them so dangerous, and that's one of the biggest motivations behind reduction.
  • edited April 2010
    I for one think we should just start firing them in random directions throughout the universe. Eventually we'll contact an intelligent lifeform and then we can be all like "oops our bad, we thought you'd like that shit" and then form diplomatic relations with our Space Japs, as we will then call them. They will then actually tentacle rape all our women but it'll be cool since the internet.
  • edited April 2010
    God I've missed you.
  • edited April 2010
    Serephel wrote: »
    The problem with reduction is the effect it can have on our allies. No country in the world is going to start a nuclear war with the US, because the US has more than enough nukes to glass anyone who tries. However, our allies are protected under a nuclear umbrella, which basically states that if someone nukes them, we'll nuke their attackers in response. So, when we cut back on our stash, our allies will start to get slightly more concerned.

    As I understand it our current cap on nuclear warheads is 2,200. That cap was set in 1991. The new pact would reduce the cap to 1,550 nuclear warheads. I think that is far more than enough to fuck anyone who tried to start a nuclear war with any of our allies.

    And I don't think that anyone is thinking about completely getting rid of our nuclear stock pile anytime soon (if there is they should be slapped). So long as human kind retains the knowledge of how to create a nuclear bomb, then the US will have the need of a nuclear stock pile. And you can bet that so long as it is in the US's power, we will make sure that we have the biggest, or at least tied for it.
  • edited April 2010
    This is why democracy doesn't always work.

    Why it's so hard to cut the federal budget
    A new Economist/YouGov poll asked people “If government spending is reduced in order to balance the budget, which of the following government programs should receive lower federal funding than they currently do?” Respondents could check all that apply.

    Not surprisingly, as Kevin Drum noted, few people wanted to cut most programs. The exception was foreign aid, which, as The Economist pointed out, makes up a tiny fraction of the budget. Jon Bernstein is skeptical that people would be that opposed to foreign aid if they knew where it went (e.g., a significant chunk to Israel).

    I want to suggest that the problem goes even deeper. The programs that make up the largest share of the federal budget are typically the ones that the fewest people want to cut. Consider this graph, in which I attempted to match most of the YouGov categories to a plausible counterpart in Obama’s FY 2010 budget proposal. (I drew on additional stories for information about the budgets for health research and highways. Foreign aid is estimated at 0.5% of the budget.) Of course, Obama’s budget proposal is not the ultimate budget, but the comparison between it and the poll is still instructive:

    budgetpoll-thumb.png

    As you move downward, into categories of spending that are increasingly popular, you get to the largest federal programs, particularly entitlement spending. Really, there is only one area of federal spending — national defense — that is sizable and that even a modest fraction (22%) is willing to cut.

    In fact, there is a negative relationship between the budgetary share allocated to a policy area and the fraction who want to cut it. The correlation coefficient between the poll percentages and the budget percentages is -.33 (with or without the obvious potential outlier, foreign aid, included).

    If Americans are forced to be specific, their recipe for cutting federal spending would do little to reduce spending.