If your into it....

Ryoga

If any of you are into any anime or manga of sorts, you know that american version (dubbed) usually suck, and they get the most annoying person they can to do the role. Well, a few good animes are coming to america via Cartoon network, and I just want a little feedback on wha you think of this...

The Lurking Evil that is Toonami Jetstream news...

It's called jetstream, and they're basically going to take one of my favorite anime "Prince of Tennis" and most likely pick up an annoying voice actor and edit the hell out of it...and give the characters american names. So, I guess this is a discussion for those of you who like anime and such to talk about this topic and hopefully in the future other topics.

stef

Well, I personally enjoy watching anime without the luxury of several years of Japanese classes. The people at Cartoon Network who bring anime to US television seem to be fans, not some corporation raping the original works for a quick buck. Viz entertainment is a pretty well-respected importer of anime/manga as well.

From what I gather in the article, Jetstream offers a legitimate, non-pirated way for fans to see series to which they'd otherwise have no exposure. I'm not sure that I totally understand why this project is a bad thing.

FangédFaerie

I second that opinion, Stef.

If Cartoon Network people ran for president (especially the adult swim guys), I'd vote for 'em.

I understand not liking bad voiceovers, but translation of the dialogue and more American-sounding names would make more great anime accessible to American fans, which means more exposure and support for the genre as a whole.

Serephel

Stef wrote:

From what I gather in the article, Jetstream offers a legitimate, non-pirated way for fans to see series to which they'd otherwise have no exposure.

So it's for those who have no internet access and don't know what a fansub is.

mario

I used to be a big subtitle snob when it came to anime-viewing. The companies providing English dubs often had pretty poor production values. But that's not the case so much anymore. Shows like Cowboy Bebop and Azumanga Daioh (which I've watched both dubbed and subbed) do a fine job at choosing good voice actors, translating well without cramming in every single subtext of the translation, and maintaining the characters' names and dispositions.

Toonami Jetstream sounds like an awesome service for me (don't have cable), but I think it would be a lot cooler if it was used as a test market for more obscure animes to see how well-received they are by US audiences. If a show did sufficiently well on this broadband service (I could see shows like Crayon Shinchan do wonderfully in this regard), they would consider moving it to broadcast, either via Toonami or Adult Swim (Shinchan definitely ending up on the latter).

Oh, and I tried learning Japanese for a time, at least partially so I could understand animes without subs or dubs. Now I can understand when anime characters proclaim something as being cool (sugoi) or stupid (baka).

Ryoga

True, on all four accounts, I don't know, It's just I host an Anime Club for the middle school in my area with a few other people, and we've seen a lot of good anime's in subbed and dubbed and the dubbed always annoyed me. But I suppose it is cool they are trying to expose audiences to some new anime. I'm glad Tenchi Muyo! will be on there, and Prince of Tennis, since both have been overlooked by the general concensus (younger kids at least) and it's cool that they are going to see it.

But mostly what makes me iffy is that soon there will be this whole idea of these animes that is americanized, so what a lot of people see is the edited scenes and versions and get a wrong idea. The only american network I don't fully mind is Adult Swim, since they try to keep it really close within the bounds of no nudity and extensive swearing.

We have made a compromise in the Anime club though. one subbed, one dubbed episode/movie. I guess I am a snob when it comes to that stuff though, it's just it kind of pains me to see so many cool things taken out of their original context.

But one good way I can look at it is that these manga artists and anime makers who worked so hard on the series will get some extra support from it.

(But American Naruto does annoy me)

Edit: Luffy's voice also sucks...too kiddishly scratchy.

Edit 2: To consume some time how about we do a game.
Someone posts a picture of an anime/manga character and the first person to guess it posts another picture and we just continue on. (you have to guess character and anime.)
Edit: new topic for that game.

stef

So it's for those who have no internet access and don't know what a fansub is.

I love subs and I am well-acquainted with fan-subs. But if the same anime is available as a (technically pirated) fan-sub and a legitimately-distributed dub, I'd prefer the legitimate version. First, it shows distributors that there is an eager American market for good Japanese animation. Second, as Ryoga was saying, the creators actually make some money off of a legitimate distribution. To echo Mario's sentiments, I'm really hopeful that both the subtitles and the dubbed versions will increase in quality as anime becomes mainstreamed in America.

Ryoga, your concerns about the censorship (and also the annoying voice acting) are a strike against a lot of the current imports. One of the first 'adult' anime I watched was Vampire Hunter D on cable about 13 years ago, and it cut out so much of the naughty bits that the ending made no sense. Like, I couldn't even tell if the vampire was ultimately defeated. The problem of censorship is going to take itself a while to work out, and I think anime fans tend to be very well-spoken opponents of censorship.

OK, and for all of the horrible subs, there are a few hilarious voices. Some of my favorites:

Ranma's school rival (just hear the bit where he says, "It's a cute little dolly" and tell me it's not funnier than the subtitled version).

Chiyo-chan's "dad" in Azumanga Daioh.

Kiki's cat in Kiki's Delivery Service.

Also, I tend to find the Japanese female lead voices too shrill to be taken seriously. Ranma subbed versus Ranma dubbed highlights this difference very nicely.

(p.s.-- this is an awesome topic. Thanks for linking the article. If you'd like to play the anime character guessing game, why don't you make a new thread so that we can stay on-topic here?)

Ryoga

thanks, and despite the fact Ryoga and all the voice are iffy, I still love the series. Hence the name Ryoga. Anyways, look at the above picture and multiple edits, you can play. and yeah, Vamp Hunter D would be confusing..damn your older than me, i feel like a young'un.


Edit, ok, will do.
sorry.

Edit again: (Notice my posts are so messy?) Anyways, keeping on topic...How about we talk about some specific dubbs and just critique and point out some things that we like or whatever?

*Is getting an urge to do an Anime watching like the SCIENCE! thing..only with anime.

mario

If you want another example of good dubs, check out the fine work Pixar and Disney have done with Hayao Miyazaki's films. Stef already brought up Phil Hartman's role in Kiki's Delivery Service, but Disney played a big part in bringing big talent to the other movies as well. Stef and I just saw Nausicaä of the Valley of the Winds the other night, and every voice actor felt appropriate in their respective roles. I thought Patrick Stewart brought a lot to the film.

Okay, there is one Miyazaki movie I thought they messed up a bit on with the dub: Princess Mononoke. Billy Bob Thornton was a terrible choice. And did they even pay attention to Moro having a male voice when they cast Gillian Anderson for the part?

Ryoga

Yeah, Ghibli/Miyazaki/Disney do really good jobs. And while Billy Bob Thornton wasn't all that great, he was okay. It wasn't like it was some high pitched voice, or a really bruttish gruff voice that just seems too...ehhh. But I have Nausicaa is bad ass, and they got almost everyone right on. I think they do a good job with getting a feel for every characters individual personality and adding a voice that gives the characters their own sense or personality, instead of some random voice that adds nothing to the characters personality.

Unknown

I don';t watch much Anime, but when I do it's usually One Peice, Inuyasha, Sonic, or Shaman King. And that's not very often.

hlavco

I don't... watch anime. In my opinion, it's not very funny, and there's too many sweatdrops.

Ryoga

I suppose if you watch the really generic anime they overuse that, but the only one i've watched with a sweatdrop lately was Love Hina and a few episodes of Naruto. (Anime Club) but that's lately. I have seen a few in the past with a couple of them.

Nukivaj

Billy Cristal also did a great job in "Howl's Moving Castle".

Drooling Iguana

I always wondered why they don't use the SAP and closed captioning features of modern TVs to let viewers choose between subtitled and dubbed versions of shows.

If nothing else, it would allow me to actually watch the occasional anime show on TV instead of having to either wait for the DVDs or pirate the fansubs, since I've yet to hear a single dub that hasn't made me want to claw my ears out. Hell, the Spirited Away dub actually makes it more difficult for me to watch the proper version of the movie, since I can'd help but be constantly reminded of how badly they butchered it in the dubbed version.

Lang

I didn't care about dubbing, until I started watching One Piece. Then I found out what the dub here was like.

It's not a translation. Hell, I'll give that company credit for accomplishing a miracle of alchemy. The show is fun and interesting in its original form (or what I can get from it via fansubbing) but the English version takes out content it deems unfit for children (the military doesn't use rifles! Digitally make them super soakers!) and fills the empty space so quickly you can hear a bamf. Recently, a character's death was censored and replaced by a "joke" about toilets.

It's just sad is all. I'm all for adaptations close to the source material, but there are bad cases.

Ryoga

Yup, and Sanji smokes a...wait.. it's a loli pop now? Hmmm..interesting. Also, they changed the name from Zoro, to Zolo. another minor annoyance. But the series is awesome in it's original form, just like Naruto was pretty good in it's original form.

mario

Regarding Zoro vs. Zolo: the 'L' and 'R' sounds are interchangeable in Japanese, so both translations are technically correct.

Ryoga

Eh, well, (Reading Rainbows it) thanks, didn't know that. Either way, Zoro sounds more kickass. Anyways, Like I said, One Piece is still pretty bad ass. ecspecially the manga.

Drooling Iguana

If he doesn't dress in black, wear a mask and fight the corrupt aristrocracy in 19th century California, he shouldn't be called Zoro.

Ryoga

He's the Japanese Zoro, slightly less awesome, just like the Japanese Spiderman.

Amoeba Boy

Drooling Iguana wrote:

If he doesn't dress in black, wear a mask and fight the corrupt aristrocracy in 19th century California, he shouldn't be called Zoro.

California? I thought he fought in Spain.

mario

Nope, he was a Mexican folk hero. And he also had two 'R's in his name.

Ryoga

In one of the more recent Zorro's he fought in California as it was being formed.

Drooling Iguana

I'm pretty sure he was in California all the way back in The Curse of Capistrano, but some of the movies put him in Mexico because they didn't expect people to know California's history as a Spanish colony.

Lang

Drooling Iguana wrote:

If he doesn't dress in black, wear a mask and fight the corrupt aristrocracy in 19th century California, he shouldn't be called Zoro.

Well, he fights with three swords simultaneously, cut through steel, could lift a building, and recently cut two cars of a train in half while on top of another train. The anime even in its original Japanese form had his name printed as "Zoro (it uses English sometimes)". The dubbers changed it to avoid a lawsuit (which was unlikely).

Also, the other guys' name is Zorro.

Apathy

Ryoga wrote:

*Is getting an urge to do an Anime watching like the SCIENCE! thing..only with anime.

Actually I've been thinking about adding some anime movies to the listing in the near future.

Sorry to derail the thread a bit there, I don't really have much else to add to the discussion except to agree with various people.

Ryoga

It's fine, your contributing, as long as it's about anime/manga/the sort, it's all cool. And if you did that, that would be awesome. I suggest something people can easily get though if your going to do it.

And I can see why they would change the name of Zoro/Zolo/Zorro. No one wants to file charges on the other for a stupid reason, so they figure, 'nip it at the bud' whatever, at least it isn't something like Kreig or Harry...