Hey, how do you set up dual monitors? Do you need a special video card or software, or is it nothing more than changing a setting somewhere? I can get some good looking Chinese monitors for cheap, and I was thinking about getting one.
If you have a video card with multiple inputs, you're good to go. I'd recommend downloading a 3rd party program like Display Fusion (theres a free version I believe) to do cool things like have multiple desktop backgrounds and auto window-swapping and stuff.
I have no idea. I have a laptop, so I know I can connect it to another monitor. But I know that when I toggle access to the outside monitor it can display on either the laptop monitor, external monitor, or the same image on both. I'm not sure how to make the external monitor work as an extension of the first. I'd like to be able to run a fullscreen program on one monitor and other stuff on the other.
I'm running dual screens right now. I just hook them up go into "Display Settings" which you can get to easy enough in Windows by right clicking on the deskop background and selecting "Personalize" if you run Vista, or "Properties" in XP. If you have multiple monitors they should show up as blue numbered boxes here showing their relative positions (which may be wrong, but you can adjust it here). Click the second monitor and check "Extend the desktop onto this monitor". That's the simplest way to get the effect you're going for. If that doesn't work, you may have to work with your display drivers, but I don't know what you'd have there whether it is ATi, nVidia, or Intel.
ETA: Oh, and just note that most full screen apps (games) will tend to trap the mouse cursor so you can't interact with the secondary screen at all. Even if a game doesn't trap the mouse, it'll probably minimize if you click outside of it, so you can't really intereact with other monitors while running something full screen, unless it's just a video or something.
On the subject of computer building I have a few new parts on order. One is one of those newfangled solid state disks everyone is talking about. One is an actual graphics card which I've finally gotten around to getting, and the last is a larger monitor.
The SSD is just a 30GB model. A boot drive to load Windows 7 on. My expectations are not especially high with current ssd tech compared to the hype, so I wasn't going to fork over enough money for more than a 30GB. (Got a Black Friday deal on it too. Online shopping is handy.) I shall see what it's really worth I guess.
The graphics card is a Radeon 5770. Nothing spectacular. I could have just gotten a Geforce GTX260 from the start I guess, but it seemed like that would run a bit hotter than I'd like. I don't need my computer to double as a space heater. The catch here is that the low idle power that many review sites show for radeon 5000 cards is with single monitor systems, so I guess I'm somewhat damned either way. Something about the memory not powering down much with a dual screen, but my info here comes from a German website.
The last item is an HP LP2475W. An expensive 24" monitor with an IPS panel. For an explanation on what IPS means I think TFTCentral might do it better. On the short, IPS panels are normally used in the really expensive fancy-pants monitors for elitist assholes who calibrate their monitors with colorimeters. This is one of the cheapest monitors you'll find with an IPS panel, especially at this size. Still, I've gone off the deep end a little with this one, but I use the same monitors for work and play. If I'm going to stare at a screen more than 12 hours a day, I'm going to make it a nice one.
I am in the process of loosely talking about building computers again. Got a good buddy from work who builds his own stuff all the time. He's going to help me shop around make sure I don't do something stupid like rub a balloon against my hair while holding the CPU and motherboard on my penis.
I'm building a gaming rig, and a nice one at that. I am under the impression that the video card is often the bottleneck with regards to game video quality and speed. My friend is suggesting going with an ATI video card, since my processor and motherboard may be AMD related anyway.
He's suggesting ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 4860, which is roughly $120 bucks. But I also see the HD 4890 too, and that's about $220 bucks. I want to have something that I don't need to replace for a long time, but I don't want to upgrade if I'm not going to make use of the additional capacity anyway.
I'm looking to make this gaming rig into something that'll last me for a few years. I'm sure I'll have other questions later, but the video card issue is first on my list. I need it to be able to handle Starcraft 2, since I estimate about 90% of my entire office will be playing it. Until then, I still play wow on a regular basis, and I want something to let me handle my 25 man raids without falling fps rates or decline in graphic quality. Because I am never content focusing on just one thing at a time, I like to run wow in a windowed mode while running a video right next to it, and maybe MSN or something in the background too, in addition to a bunch of firefox windows I'm too lazy to close.
So, computer builders of the OB, what kind of video card would you recommend?
Desktop. I am currently using a laptop for everything, but it can't handle a lot of newer games. I want to build a desktop and use that for gaming, while keeping my laptop for mostly travel and occasional work.
If that was the case I don't know why you'd be discussing an ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 4860. That's just silly. That's a laptop part. I don't know if you could even plug that into a desktop.
For a desktop you usually want desktop parts. For longevity it's often wise to stick to newer parts such as ATI's radeon 5000 series. NVidia should finally be starting to launch their new stuff...in another month or two? No solid dates on that. It'd likely start with the very high end.
I have a radeon 5770 myself. It's comparable to a radeon 4870 in performance and is perhaps slightly slower than a geforce gtx260 overall, but has lower power consumption (meaning less heat) and directX11 support. Also I could have 3 monitors plugged into it. I'm fairly happy with it. I can top out Left 4 Dead 2 on a 1920x 1200 screen without issue at least. It has no physX support, but neither do any games I have or any games I'm likely to get in the near future.
If you got the money to spend and availability is there, a radeon 5850 is probably a popular choice. I wanted something with lower power usage since I'm only running a 425W power supply.
I don't know what prices and availability are like in China so I can't comment on that.
Thanks, that helps. I was using basically the Chinese version of newegg to look at computer parts, I didn't know I was looking at laptop pieces.
Edit: I figured it out, I'm retarded and typed 4860 instead of 4850 when moving from the Chinese site to the AMD site. That took me to the mobility series. So anyways, what's the difference between the 4000 series and the 5000 series? Is it just price and quality, or is it more complicated than that?
Double edit: Prices for company products you know in the US (Intel, AMD, etc), are about the same in China. However, domestic companies can run a lot cheaper. I may be going for a Great Wall motherboard, and maybe some memory from domestic companies too. Both varieties are fairly available here, computer gaming is very big in China.
5000 is updated to fully support directX11 features versus directX10.1 and also is built on a smaller manufacturing process which basically means a decrease in manufacturing cost (physically smaller chip = more chips per run) and more importantly a small reduction in voltages which reduces power usage.
Also the idle power usage of the 4800 series was pretty awful while the 5000 series lineup has some of the lowest idle power usage any given class of product. Otherwise there isn't really a giant difference I guess unless you were interested in a bunch of esoteric microchip architectural stuff.
My friend and I went to the electronics market today to pick out the parts for my computer. We got everything selected, and the guys there went ahead and assembled the computer for us. We tested it before we took it back to my place, since that was the logical thing to do.
BUT. We never tested the DVD drive. And as soon as we got ready to install the OS, the DVD tray would not open. Boo.
My friend ran back to the store with the DVD drive to exchange it and/or test it. He was worried that maybe there was insufficient power in the computer. I have a 500w power supply in there, but my ATI Radeon 4890 is a power fiend, and I have an AMD quad core 2.8ghz processor in there too.
I'll post full specs as soon as it's actually up and running.
Edit: Up and running!
AMD Phenom II x4 925 processor 2.80ghz
4gb ram
ATI Radeon HD4890 video card with 1gb memory
1tb hard drive
Asus M4A77TD AMD 770/SB710 motherboard
And I have it all running on a 22inch Phillips monitor. Sexy
Wasn't sure where to put this, but just in case you were looking for a reason to simultaneously laugh and bash your head on your desk, I have come across something.
So. I was being a good programming and at least attempting to do my work today when I encountered some trouble using the calculator. My escape key wasn't working. I tested it in other programs and sure enough it wasn't doing a dang thing. Well shit.
Anyhow, I figured that after more than 9 years of service I could probably stand to retire this cheap Dell keyboard anyway. So as per my standard practice it was time to research. I don't take my computing lightly. If a cheap came-with-the-computer keyboard can serve me this well, what would a spendier model do for me other than lighten my wallet more?
Boy, what a rabbit hole this is. See, at a base level I figure I have to decide "Do I want to go wireless?" The idea appeals to me. It really does. But I have some issues. Specifically I'm REALLY picky about my keyboard layout. It MUST be a stock standard 107-key windows keyboard layout. It's based heavily on the older 104-key standard. This is absolutely NOT open to interpretation.
Things I will absolutely not tolerate:
-half-height Function keys. They should be the same height, size, and shape as any other letter key.
-Large size Enter keys. Single height only. A large enter key would mess up my control scheme in many games.
-no 10-key. I'm a goddamn programmer. I use this thing a LOT. And again, part of my favored control scheme in many games
-Ergonomic anything. No. Just no. Absolutely not.
-Curved, rounded, oversized, or oddly slanted buttons. I hate odd-shaped keys.
-sideways insert-home-page up/down-delete-end block. Stick to the standard! This is just an attempt to crowd buttons closer together than they should be.
-extra buttons. Out of 107 keys there are already 4 keys I never use. Do not add more! I don't need media controls. I don't need volume controls, I don't need additional shortcut keys to the calculator. I already have these. They are entirely redundant.
-flat laptop-style buttons. I hate laptops. Part of the appeal of a desktop is that I get away from cruddy keyboard buttons. I want a full keyboard with full buttons.
Now knowing all this, if you shop for a wireless keyboard you would quickly become super frustrated. You start to wonder if they even MADE wireless keyboards like that. For a while I don't think they did. For a while I just accepted that all wireless keyboards sucked. As it is, I HAVE found suitable wireless keyboards but only from HP. 2 modelnumbers. They each only have a single cruddy picture that is barely enough to see that they are standard keyboards. They have different prices but look exactly the same and have identical specs for the few specs given.
Tempting, and also confusing. These come with a mouse (I burned out the scroll wheel on a mouse and now have an optical mouse I'm not totally happy with anyway). The mouse is listed with a 3 month battery life, but I use my computer a lot. It's unlikely I'd be able to go that long. Fussing with batteries would be a negative here. I'm keeping these in mind, but I continue my research.
Another thing I learned about is what some call "clicky" keyboards. Specifically those with mechanical switches under the keys. The 104-key picture I linked earlier was an old "model-M" that is the common reference for this. Cheap keyboards apparently use little rubber domes as springs. Some keyboard geeks out there seem to have a lot of hate for these little domes, but great praise for the mechanical switches. Ok, but I also found these "clicky" keyboards are quite expensive and relatively hard to find. Also a little noisy. Also Also, not wireless. I guess there's some issues with "n-key rollover" that has something to do with how many keys you can press at once and old ps/2 ports being capable of this but even a wired usb keyboard apparently can't fully handle it. At least it seems to be that way.
To heap more crazy into the mix, there are many different kinds of mechanical switches and opinions on any one kind vary from outright hatred to worship.
Does anyone else give any thought to their keyboard? What do you all think about keyboards?
EDIT: This subject seems to apply to building computers a bit, so I figured I'd put it here rather than my tech talk thread.
I never had the...pleasure of being able to test one of those, but I had heard it's rather hard to type on it, not only because of the detection but your fingers are so used to pushing ACTUAL keys that it's pretty awkward.
I like ergonomic keyboards a lot. I know that they get a lot of hate, but really I think it's just a matter of what you're used to. It feels to me like my fingers have a lot more room to move and I can type a lot faster. When I get stuck with those itsy-bitsy Dell keyboards that all schools seem to have, everything is so smashed together that I'll often hit two keys when I'm trying to hit one.
The laser keyboard is not very practical at all, but you have to admit it looks pretty badass.
On a serious note though, I just bought some regular Logitech keyboard/mouse combo when I had my computer built. Works just fine. I've also got a second wireless keyboard and mouse (some domestic Chinese brand) plugged in as well, but I only use it when I'm lying in bed and trying to cycle through music or video files.
I mostly agree with your notes on Keyboards; EXCEPT, I don't actually use the function keys, so I don't mind them, I like the volume/media player controls, lets me adjust stuff in game. And the big one; I really REALLY hate the insert key, and accidentally hit insert all the time while going for delete. As thus I greatly enjoy my current keyboard, as it moves insert up by scroll lock and makes the delete key larger (It also lets me completely disable the insert key entirely, but that's the Logitech software, not the keyboard itself).
I use insert often enough. Certainly more than I use Scroll Lock or Pause/Break.
As it stands I'm steering away from the wireless idea. Batteries are annoying and I don't really need wireless.
The whole mechanical switch thing still has me curious though. The "buckling spring" models like that model M not so much though. I've had my hands on a keyboard like that before and found the keys too stiff. It takes more pressure to press them. So I'd look at some other types of mechanical switches.
Comments
If you have a video card with multiple inputs, you're good to go. I'd recommend downloading a 3rd party program like Display Fusion (theres a free version I believe) to do cool things like have multiple desktop backgrounds and auto window-swapping and stuff.
ETA: Oh, and just note that most full screen apps (games) will tend to trap the mouse cursor so you can't interact with the secondary screen at all. Even if a game doesn't trap the mouse, it'll probably minimize if you click outside of it, so you can't really intereact with other monitors while running something full screen, unless it's just a video or something.
Fixed it for ya.
The SSD is just a 30GB model. A boot drive to load Windows 7 on. My expectations are not especially high with current ssd tech compared to the hype, so I wasn't going to fork over enough money for more than a 30GB. (Got a Black Friday deal on it too. Online shopping is handy.) I shall see what it's really worth I guess.
The graphics card is a Radeon 5770. Nothing spectacular. I could have just gotten a Geforce GTX260 from the start I guess, but it seemed like that would run a bit hotter than I'd like. I don't need my computer to double as a space heater. The catch here is that the low idle power that many review sites show for radeon 5000 cards is with single monitor systems, so I guess I'm somewhat damned either way. Something about the memory not powering down much with a dual screen, but my info here comes from a German website.
The last item is an HP LP2475W. An expensive 24" monitor with an IPS panel. For an explanation on what IPS means I think TFTCentral might do it better. On the short, IPS panels are normally used in the really expensive fancy-pants monitors for elitist assholes who calibrate their monitors with colorimeters. This is one of the cheapest monitors you'll find with an IPS panel, especially at this size. Still, I've gone off the deep end a little with this one, but I use the same monitors for work and play. If I'm going to stare at a screen more than 12 hours a day, I'm going to make it a nice one.
I am in the process of loosely talking about building computers again. Got a good buddy from work who builds his own stuff all the time. He's going to help me shop around make sure I don't do something stupid like rub a balloon against my hair while holding the CPU and motherboard on my penis.
I'm building a gaming rig, and a nice one at that. I am under the impression that the video card is often the bottleneck with regards to game video quality and speed. My friend is suggesting going with an ATI video card, since my processor and motherboard may be AMD related anyway.
He's suggesting ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 4860, which is roughly $120 bucks. But I also see the HD 4890 too, and that's about $220 bucks. I want to have something that I don't need to replace for a long time, but I don't want to upgrade if I'm not going to make use of the additional capacity anyway.
I'm looking to make this gaming rig into something that'll last me for a few years. I'm sure I'll have other questions later, but the video card issue is first on my list. I need it to be able to handle Starcraft 2, since I estimate about 90% of my entire office will be playing it. Until then, I still play wow on a regular basis, and I want something to let me handle my 25 man raids without falling fps rates or decline in graphic quality. Because I am never content focusing on just one thing at a time, I like to run wow in a windowed mode while running a video right next to it, and maybe MSN or something in the background too, in addition to a bunch of firefox windows I'm too lazy to close.
So, computer builders of the OB, what kind of video card would you recommend?
For a desktop you usually want desktop parts. For longevity it's often wise to stick to newer parts such as ATI's radeon 5000 series. NVidia should finally be starting to launch their new stuff...in another month or two? No solid dates on that. It'd likely start with the very high end.
I have a radeon 5770 myself. It's comparable to a radeon 4870 in performance and is perhaps slightly slower than a geforce gtx260 overall, but has lower power consumption (meaning less heat) and directX11 support. Also I could have 3 monitors plugged into it. I'm fairly happy with it. I can top out Left 4 Dead 2 on a 1920x 1200 screen without issue at least. It has no physX support, but neither do any games I have or any games I'm likely to get in the near future.
If you got the money to spend and availability is there, a radeon 5850 is probably a popular choice. I wanted something with lower power usage since I'm only running a 425W power supply.
I don't know what prices and availability are like in China so I can't comment on that.
Edit: I figured it out, I'm retarded and typed 4860 instead of 4850 when moving from the Chinese site to the AMD site. That took me to the mobility series. So anyways, what's the difference between the 4000 series and the 5000 series? Is it just price and quality, or is it more complicated than that?
Double edit: Prices for company products you know in the US (Intel, AMD, etc), are about the same in China. However, domestic companies can run a lot cheaper. I may be going for a Great Wall motherboard, and maybe some memory from domestic companies too. Both varieties are fairly available here, computer gaming is very big in China.
Also the idle power usage of the 4800 series was pretty awful while the 5000 series lineup has some of the lowest idle power usage any given class of product. Otherwise there isn't really a giant difference I guess unless you were interested in a bunch of esoteric microchip architectural stuff.
My friend and I went to the electronics market today to pick out the parts for my computer. We got everything selected, and the guys there went ahead and assembled the computer for us. We tested it before we took it back to my place, since that was the logical thing to do.
BUT. We never tested the DVD drive. And as soon as we got ready to install the OS, the DVD tray would not open. Boo.
My friend ran back to the store with the DVD drive to exchange it and/or test it. He was worried that maybe there was insufficient power in the computer. I have a 500w power supply in there, but my ATI Radeon 4890 is a power fiend, and I have an AMD quad core 2.8ghz processor in there too.
I'll post full specs as soon as it's actually up and running.
Edit: Up and running!
AMD Phenom II x4 925 processor 2.80ghz
4gb ram
ATI Radeon HD4890 video card with 1gb memory
1tb hard drive
Asus M4A77TD AMD 770/SB710 motherboard
And I have it all running on a 22inch Phillips monitor. Sexy
So. I was being a good programming and at least attempting to do my work today when I encountered some trouble using the calculator. My escape key wasn't working. I tested it in other programs and sure enough it wasn't doing a dang thing. Well shit.
Anyhow, I figured that after more than 9 years of service I could probably stand to retire this cheap Dell keyboard anyway. So as per my standard practice it was time to research. I don't take my computing lightly. If a cheap came-with-the-computer keyboard can serve me this well, what would a spendier model do for me other than lighten my wallet more?
Boy, what a rabbit hole this is. See, at a base level I figure I have to decide "Do I want to go wireless?" The idea appeals to me. It really does. But I have some issues. Specifically I'm REALLY picky about my keyboard layout. It MUST be a stock standard 107-key windows keyboard layout. It's based heavily on the older 104-key standard. This is absolutely NOT open to interpretation.
Things I will absolutely not tolerate:
-half-height Function keys. They should be the same height, size, and shape as any other letter key.
-Large size Enter keys. Single height only. A large enter key would mess up my control scheme in many games.
-no 10-key. I'm a goddamn programmer. I use this thing a LOT. And again, part of my favored control scheme in many games
-Ergonomic anything. No. Just no. Absolutely not.
-Curved, rounded, oversized, or oddly slanted buttons. I hate odd-shaped keys.
-sideways insert-home-page up/down-delete-end block. Stick to the standard! This is just an attempt to crowd buttons closer together than they should be.
-extra buttons. Out of 107 keys there are already 4 keys I never use. Do not add more! I don't need media controls. I don't need volume controls, I don't need additional shortcut keys to the calculator. I already have these. They are entirely redundant.
-flat laptop-style buttons. I hate laptops. Part of the appeal of a desktop is that I get away from cruddy keyboard buttons. I want a full keyboard with full buttons.
Now knowing all this, if you shop for a wireless keyboard you would quickly become super frustrated. You start to wonder if they even MADE wireless keyboards like that. For a while I don't think they did. For a while I just accepted that all wireless keyboards sucked. As it is, I HAVE found suitable wireless keyboards but only from HP. 2 model numbers. They each only have a single cruddy picture that is barely enough to see that they are standard keyboards. They have different prices but look exactly the same and have identical specs for the few specs given.
Tempting, and also confusing. These come with a mouse (I burned out the scroll wheel on a mouse and now have an optical mouse I'm not totally happy with anyway). The mouse is listed with a 3 month battery life, but I use my computer a lot. It's unlikely I'd be able to go that long. Fussing with batteries would be a negative here. I'm keeping these in mind, but I continue my research.
Another thing I learned about is what some call "clicky" keyboards. Specifically those with mechanical switches under the keys. The 104-key picture I linked earlier was an old "model-M" that is the common reference for this. Cheap keyboards apparently use little rubber domes as springs. Some keyboard geeks out there seem to have a lot of hate for these little domes, but great praise for the mechanical switches. Ok, but I also found these "clicky" keyboards are quite expensive and relatively hard to find. Also a little noisy. Also Also, not wireless. I guess there's some issues with "n-key rollover" that has something to do with how many keys you can press at once and old ps/2 ports being capable of this but even a wired usb keyboard apparently can't fully handle it. At least it seems to be that way.
To heap more crazy into the mix, there are many different kinds of mechanical switches and opinions on any one kind vary from outright hatred to worship.
Does anyone else give any thought to their keyboard? What do you all think about keyboards?
EDIT: This subject seems to apply to building computers a bit, so I figured I'd put it here rather than my tech talk thread.
Although I agree with the standard layout/normal buttons thing. It's what I'm used to and it has everything that I expect and need.
On a serious note though, I just bought some regular Logitech keyboard/mouse combo when I had my computer built. Works just fine. I've also got a second wireless keyboard and mouse (some domestic Chinese brand) plugged in as well, but I only use it when I'm lying in bed and trying to cycle through music or video files.
I use insert often enough. Certainly more than I use Scroll Lock or Pause/Break.
As it stands I'm steering away from the wireless idea. Batteries are annoying and I don't really need wireless.
The whole mechanical switch thing still has me curious though. The "buckling spring" models like that model M not so much though. I've had my hands on a keyboard like that before and found the keys too stiff. It takes more pressure to press them. So I'd look at some other types of mechanical switches.