Ok, so it looks like your going for a more typical big tower. The lack of power supply is fine, it just means you'll have to get your own and that means you can make sure it's not a cruddy one. I usually figure on ordering parts all at once, so I guess you could get that along with everything else. I'd just say that after Intel launches it's stuff within the next weeks I'll be looking at stuff more to give more specific pointers.
I haven't known anyone with an msi graphics card before. If you like the second option, I'd say there's probably nothing wrong with it. The Geforce 460 is indeed slower than the 6870 and the 50Mhz overclock won't change that. Additionally it'll consume a bit more power at load which translates to more heat, but the heatsink looks pretty good, so no matter. Both of those cards idle pretty well so they aren't big power hogs when you're not using them (unless you run more than 1 monitor). Price-wise, the Geforce seems like it'd probably be a better deal.
As for RAM, it's basically 4GB recommended for pretty much everyone. You could get 8 if you really want to I guess. I have 8, but it was really cheap at the time. I don't need that much.
I'll probably also get a new fan for the CPU and I need a DVD Drive of some kind.
Those are all compatible right? (Feel free to make other suggestions.)
Case is not to my tastes in the looks department, but it's a reasonable steel case. I'd question if the fans in it might be a bit noisy, but I don't know how much noise bothers you. If you like the looks, no worries. It'll get the job done.
Motherboard is cheap, and if you're doing a self build on AMD parts, consider doing yourself a favor and find something with SATA 6Gbs ports. Specifically 6 of them as that'd be a dead give away that it's got the SB850 part which is their current southbridge chip of choice. Odds are any such motherboard would also have a couple USB 3.0 ports as well. Asus is a good brand though. Oh, and you picked a mATX motherboard which wouldn't require a case the size of what you picked. It'd still work, just wouldn't fill it. Not a major deal, but something I thought I'd point out.
Graphics I already chimed in on. As I said before my advice to the other person who will be building a computer in the near future would be to hold off on graphics for now and run integrated for a while, but that's based on getting some of the new Intel stuff coming out January 5th since the integrated graphics there will likely be pretty good, but I'll have to wait until then to know anything for sure. If you want good graphics now, your choice is perfectly fine.
Power supply...I'd never buy that one. Cheapo brand, somewhat excessive wattage rating and efficiency claims are likely bogus. It has no basic 80+ certification, let alone bronze/silver/gold ranking to back up it's "85%" claims. And personally I hate glowy parts, but that's just me. Also and most importantly, I have a friend who had a power supply of that brand (looked the same and all) that died and nuked half the parts in his computer, so...yeah. Short answer, I like power supplies from seasonic. Long answer, I'm gonna discuss power supplies, but separately here. For now I'll cover the other stuff.
Processor is good, though few if any games will really benefit from the 6 cores. AMD processors aren't the fastest and not the most efficient, but they are priced nicely. If you do anything that's very multi-core friendly one of these wouldn't be a bad deal.
Your ram is ok, though as a non-overclocker I usually avoid memory with higher listed voltages than the standard. DDR3 is intended to run at 1.5 volts under normal conditions. This memory is listed at 1.65 and intended for modest overclocking on Intel systems, though it would most likely work fine on an AMD system. Also those heatsinks on the ram are excessive and could be a problem for any aftermarket processor heatsinks. You're talking like you are considering a processor heatsink/fan, so keep that in mind.
The hard drive is sort of unexciting and I don't have much to say about it. Tech sites are favoring a Samsung F3, but I have no experience with that drive. Just figure I'd pass that info along. All I got to say myself is that I've had to work with Western Digital to replace a couple bad drives and it wasn't a very painful process. Any drive can go bad, so that's not a knock against WD. I'm not sure what it's like dealing with other companies to handle bad drives under warranty, but that may be a point of consideration. Also, remember that backups are important. A drive going bad is not so fun.
Later: In which I talk, likely at length, about power supplies.
From what I hear the fans in the case are supposed to be pretty quiet, but we'll see.
I might wait for a while to buy these so I'll probably get to see the new Intel stuff and maybe get one of those if I like it.
I didn't know if the Motherboard or Power supply were "decent", so I'm glad I asked there.
The processor is supposed to have a Turbo Core thing where is shuts off three of the cores and boosts the power to the other three when it isn't using all of them. I was thinking I might see about over clocking it anyways.
I'll see if I can find some new RAM, some that won't get in the way.
Yeah, all the hard drives were pretty unexciting, this one just happened to be the least expensive Terrabyte one. I was gonna see if I could get a small extra one from my brother that he knows works for a backup drive.
I look forward to your... speech? I have no idea what I should be looking for with the Power Supplies.
Hmmm. I'm not really sure what makes it sniper ram instead of fairly ordinary ram. Seems fine to me.
The blu-ray stuff and the wireless are mundane things. They do what they do. As long as they function I guess they are pretty much fine.
The motherboard is sort of a flip from cheap one before. Certainly good. Costs a bit more than I'd bother spending on a motherboard myself, but as I've said, I'm not an overclocker. I don't really know if the extra cost buys anything I care about. I guess I usually figure $80-100 if I'm going cheap or $100-150 if I want a nicer motherboard. If this one tickles your fancy and you don't mind spending a bit more it'd work nicely enough.
As for the power supply, well, you've picked a much better brand this time. The choice of an 850W unit also leads nicely into that talk of power supplies I wanted to do...
So, power supplies. To start with I'll just see if I can explain what exactly it does just to make sure you follow what I might talk about here. See a computer power supply is designed to take the 110V power from your wall outlet and convert it into 12V, 5V, 3.3V and such as is required by the motherboard and other parts. This is not a free process. A certain amount of the power converted is wasted and turned into heat. That's pretty much what happens to all the power your computer uses. More power = more heat, but that's a different topic. Anyway, a power supply will use something like 100W to provide 80W to your computer. That'd be an example of 80% efficiency. Power supplies don't have a single set efficiency rating of course. It varies with how much power is actually being consumed and how hot the components are and what voltage the power from the wall is and stuff like that.
So, a little history, power supplies of the not-so-distant past tended to only be 65-75% efficient on average. Then not too long ago power efficiency started getting more attention. Suddenly these power supplies seemed darn wasteful. A little program was started. Called 80 PLUS, it was basically a program that pushed power supplies to achieve efficiencies of 80% or higher at 20%, 50%, and 100% load. This program proved quite popular. In fact, the the vast majority now meet that specific standard. Makes for a nice marketing sticker I guess. Either way, they soon introduced new tiers to the program. Suddenly there were bronze, silver, and gold rankings. Initially these were pretty aggressive with few even managing bronze level. With more time, game more improvements and at this time bronze is now common, silver can be had easy enough, and there is even a fair selection of gold ranks. A platinum rank was added along the way, but this is still pretty aggressive to this day. According to the official 80 PLUS site, only 7 power supplies have received this rank.
The result of that is that efficiency can generically be referenced by the 80plus rank which helps. On the other hand, efficiency is measured according to percentages of maximum load, which leads to another power supply topic.
Most power supplies these days are rated for much high wattages that is necessary. The typical gaming computer of today might only use 80W at idle and 250W under a very heavy load. Still it's common to see power supplies ranging from 650-1200W. That's a LOT of power. Such is the draw of big numbers. Maybe people figure that it doesn't hurt to have extra. Not a bad sentiment. Power supplies are designed to hit peak efficiency at about 50% load after all. They expect you to have overhead. Then again, I could remind you again, that these handy 80plus certifications take measurements at percents of maximum load. I'll tell you that efficiency curves for power supplies tend to drop off sharply at very low loads. So...one of the easiest ways to achieve a higher efficiency rating is to run a power supply with a higher maximum wattage. 20% of say 850W is already 170W. If your computer is idling at 80W most of the time, you wouldn't even be halfway to reaching the first basic efficiency mark. Also, you'd NEVER hit the 50% peak rating. Not without a very power hungry system.
The end result is that the most efficient power supplies are the ones that hit higher ranks at lower maximum power outputs. Also, ideally you'd get a power supply with about twice the wattage rating as your computers expected power usage under high load. That way you reach that peak efficiency when you need it the most. Overclocking can increase power usage a bit, and running high end and/or multiple graphics cards can increase power usage quite a lot. If you wanted to run 2 Geforce GTX 480's and overclock your hopefully already fast processor, suddenly 850W seems quite reasonable if not even a touch stingy. Geforce GTX 480's are very power hungry though. The 460 is quite a lot less so. That's why you're looking at the 460 and not the 480. Also, the 480 was replaced by the 580 which uses a fair it less power and is also a fair bit faster.
Anyhow, that's my piece. Excess power ratings CAN hurt you by leaving you with poorer efficiency at idle. More expensive units might be worthwhile, but don't think this is a Watts/$ thing. It's most certainly not.
I said before my favored source of power supplies is a company by the name Seasonic. Part of that choice is that I also like my computers to be quiet. Well, if you read everything I just typed, you'd maybe understand why I find this appealing. It's a high efficiency unit (reviews show it to be a little better than gold spec) with a modest power rating and also silent. Fanless units can be a hazard of course. They do need some airflow, so they can be a little dangerous, but the fact that this can exist and has been shown to be a lot better and much more durable than older fanless power supplies sort of excites me a little. Seasonic makes some nice power supplies. In fact they make a lot of Corsair's units for them. Corsair doesn't actually manufacture their own power supplies, but they do have a very good reputation and are definitely a good choice to buy a power supply from, so you get kudos for that. That 850W unit is likely a good one...just possibly overkill depending on your future plans for your computer.
So, I'm kinda tiring of typing so I think I'll leave it at that for now.
This was actually very helpful, as I had trouble finding a good power supply when I had my computer built, and I wasn't exactly sure what I was buying and why.
Bleh. It looks as if both the Hard Drives that I ordered are likely dead. Still got a few more things to check with them, but it's not looking promising. I'll probably have to borrow a temporary hard drive from my brother while we replace them, if they did indeed fail.
On a slightly better note, the Motherboard is WAY more fucking awesome than I thought. And everything else seems to work, not sure about the Wireless NIC though, as I haven't really gotten on a network, what with the lack of hard drives.
Edit: Oh right, ALSO!!! Apparently the "Sniper RAM" is a gaming thing, and it's really awesome RAM that's good for gaming, which is good as that's what I plan to do with it.
Any motherboard over $150 should be pretty awesome.
There is nothing about ram that would make it specifically good for gaming. Higher performance memory can increase performance but usually only marginally. It rarely pays for the extra cost. The sniper ram looked pretty ordinary by the specifications. I'd say it's all a bunch of marketing smoke. Price was pretty ordinary though so it's mostly free marketing smoke.
Bummer on the hard drives. I guess it happens sometimes. Hitachi is a much smaller player in the hard drive market than the likes of WD, Seagate, and Samsung. I favor WD or Samsung myself. In search of quieter drives.
Also keep the antistatic bags the Hard drives ship in! I think I forgot to say that before. You need those if you have to ship them back.
I've still got all the packaging for everything in case I need to send stuff back.
The RAM has slightly increased timing as I recall, however most the RAM of that size also has increased timing by the same amount, so compared to similar RAM isn't not much different. But yeah, it's probably mostly marketing.
I'm thinking I might get a refund and get the SLIGHTLY more expensive Samsung Drives; but we'll see how that goes.
Got my replacement hard drives, both seem to work perfectly fine, hopefully they'll continue working perfectly fine. I've got them set up in a RAID 1 configuration. Now I've just gotta reinstall everything and move some files and I should actually be able to DO THINGS with me computer. YAY!!!
Blah, my RAID configuration failed, hopefully it's just that I did something stupid and didn't set it up right instead of ANOTHER one of the hard drives dieing...
Edit: Yup, just me totally screwing everything up. I updated the BIOS, which reset all the BIOS settings, which totally fucked up my RAID configuration. Not to worry though, a quick reformating/reraiding of the drives and a reinstallation of Windows 7 seems to have fixed it.
So, I've mostly looked over this thread because I can't really understand most of it. But I'd like to, since I'd like to be able to build my next computer.
So, maybe some of you can slowly start to help me demystify this process. I went over to Newegg and just started looking at basic stuff, but motherboards in particular got me flustered very quickly. There are a few things that I can understand: memory type and available memory slots (I'm thinking that I'd want to go for 4 slots for DDR3 memory) and I'd like to be able to fit a quad-core processor or higher. But I'm still slightly confused.
So how about some interpretive help with this one. The first question I have is this: is this something that only allows for a single-core i7 processor? And what sort of PCI slots do I want? What all uses PCI slots besides the graphics card?
There's an i7 that's a hexa core, but otherwise they are all quad cores.
This looks almost like an Intel copy of the AMD motherboard I got for my computer. If it is, the motherboard is AWESOME; if not I have no idea. >_<
One of the things you'll want to look for with processors and motherboards is what type of CPU Socket it has. The board here says it uses a LGA 1156 Socket, which it looks like some of the cheaper i7 processors use. That hexa core i7 and some of the more expensive/new ones use a LGA 1366.
Unless you plan to have a dedicated sound card or wireless Network Interface Card (NIC) you probably won't use anything other than those 2 PCIe x16 ports, and you'll only use one of those unless you get 2 graphics cards.
Also RAM operates at various speeds, similar to hard drives and CPUs, so make sure you look at the speed of your RAM as well.
X is better at this "Computer Knowledge" thing than I am though so you might wait to see what he has to say, but there's a few questions answered...
Hmmmm. Well computers change pretty fast if you don't keep an eye on current tech.
Boy that's a lot of questions, which beget more questions at some point. I'll try to keep this at least somewhat short.
For starters the basic heart of a motherboard is a chipset. The chipset might actually be a single chip or it might be made up of a more traditional 2 chips. The term "chipset" is actually being brought into question lately. Regardless, the chipset is probably the most important consideration for a new motherboard if only because a given chipset will usually determine which processor socket is attached to it as well.
Your example motherboard here has an P55 chipset. A quick google search pulls up an old review of some P55 motherboards here: http://techreport.com/articles.x/17513
I specifically wish to point out the diagram. It gives you a nice little simplified view of what's all in that chipset, because that determines what sort of ports a motherboard can have. Not everything needs to be part of the chipset of course. Extra chips can be added and connected to the chipset via a pci express link or some such thing. This is how you get USB 3 in fact.
The expansion ports also connect to the chipset through pci express links. In this particular case the processor itself will also contain a pci express controller and 1 or 2 of the larger ports on the motherboard will be connected directly to the processor socket.
This leads to connectivity. The main force in expansion right now is PCI express. This should not be mistaken for PCI. PCI is an old standard that has run for a very long time. Due to it's age and how heavily it was used you still see old PCI ports on even modern motherboards, including this one. PCI ports all share bandwidth and provide a combined total theoretical speed of 133MB/s if I recall correctly.
PCI express changes to a serial connection so different ports do not share bandwidth. It comes in varying speeds by running 1, 4, 8, or 16 lanes. A single lane provides 256MB/s of bandwidth, so it's much faster than older PCI ports. There is also a newer generation of PCIe that doubles the bandwidth. You'll note from the diagram I pointed out that the processor provides the newer sort of PCI express while the chipset part actually runs the original flavor.
I'm going to leave it at this for now. Ask more questions as you please. I'll try to answer them, or provide links to sites that maybe explain things better than I can. There's a lot of code words and acronyms to remember when trying to sort all this stuff out, and it makes it hard to explain things when I don't know which ones you do and don't know.
ETA: Intel had launched some new processors that basically kick all kinds of ass a few weeks ago, but this last monday it came out that ALL the new chipsets that came out to support the new processors contained an error that potentially would cause some of (not all) the sata ports to die over time, so shipments were halted and the new products were pulled from the shelves. If you didn't get one of those already you'll have to wait another month or two for a bug-free version. If you are my brother-in-law you are already running the new kit and are just opting to not use the bugged ports much.
Thank you both for your answers. This certainly helps. And Matt, assume that I don't know things at this level. Don't worry about offending me... there's not a lot here that I'm familiar with (like serial ATA ports... huh?).
Okay, next question then. I see three different types of PCI Express ports here: 2.0 x16, x16, and regular. What's the difference between these?
Okay, so taking the information about CPU sockets, I'm guessing I do want the next step up, so I searched for a bit and found this one: it seems to be better suited to future expansion (I guess?). Seems that this socket type must be bleeding edge or something, though, since there aren't a whole lot of offerings for less than $200. Do you think the upgrade would be worth it?
So, if you're still up for answering questions for me.... maybe we can do this. Let's say I've bought a case, power supply, memory, motherboard, processor, hard drive, DVD drive, OS, and graphics card. Unless I'm forgetting something, this is all that I know that I need. Is there something else that I need for a fully-functioning computer? Is extra cooling (like heatsinks) necessary, or do computers generally have enough cooling power if you don't overclock them? (overclocking is something I'm confused about too, but that can wait... or I can look it up. Which I will.)
Yeah, that's my one gripe with Intel, everything is really expensive. I'm sure it's awesome stuff, I just don't have all that extra cash. If you get the newer CPU socket it'll be easier to upgrade your processor without having to get a new motherboard at the same time though.
This motherboard looks pretty awesome as well. If you have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and speakers that list of stuff looks good as well.
As for the extra fans, generally depends on how many your computer has anyways, and how fast the specific parts heat up. If you get a well ventilated case with a couple fans in it you should be good.
Alright, get comfy, this is gonna get long and I may jump around a bit.
Most processors come with a "stock" heatsink that is usually good enough. However, better coolers can be had which can keep a processor a bit cooler and also may operate more quietly. If you want to overclock a lot or if you want a really quiet computer, or are just paranoid about processor temps, a better processor cooler can be nice, but it's not strictly necessary. Additional fans are another exercise in subtlety as different models operate at different speeds and some are quieter than others. Most cases and coolers come with adequate fans, but they may not be really quiet for the obsessive (I'm slightly obsessive).
Regarding sockets, chipsets and sockets go hand-in-hand usually and I think the issue with Intel is confusing market segmentation. LGA1366 and the X58 chipset as found on this new motherboard was the original launch platform for the Core i7 series and was aimed at the very high-end. It came out in January of 2009 and is already 2-year-old tech. Not actually much of an upgrade. LGA 1156 is actually newer and introduced new things but aimed to be more mainstream, hence why it is cheaper. Even 1156 is basically out of date now too. Some new processors came out for LGA 1155, but this is currently in flux do to the mentioned errata issue in the new chipsets. Thing is, Intel still officially supports LGA 1366 and x58 for the high-end market, since 1156 and 1155 are technically mainstream. X58 and LGA 1366 will be replaced in the later months of this year with another overpriced platform and a a different socket again.
So I would not recommend LGA1366 or X58. It's old. It's expensive. The processors for 1366 are also very expensive for little to no gain. Heck you can spend a couple hundred extra bucks for the privilege of running a slower processor because you did not spend enough extra yet.
I can only really recommend LGA 1155 stuff at this point, except it's hard to find since the associated H67/P67 chipsets are bugged so 4 of the 6 sata ports (that's what modern hard drives and DVD drives use to connect to the motherboard) might get slow or stop working within a few years of use. If not for that, it would blatantly be the best value on the market for a speedier machine. This bug thing throws recommendations for a loop, so I'm not sure what to tell you for the moment. I'm not really a huge fan of 50-series chipsets from Intel. I'd choose AMD over that myself, but...if you taste the new stuff, any of the older stuff just isn't as sweet, ya know? Mid-year should see a big launch or two from AMD that puts them back on the map, but that's several months away yet. Intel's "Sandy Bridge" will be back in action in a couple months with the bug fixed.
Also a note on processor naming from Intel: i7, i5, and i3 don't actually have much to do with number of cores. The naming is confusing and some i5's are faster than some i7's, specifically when comparing 1366 i7's to 1156 i5's. Benchmarks are better than specifications.
Oh right. I feel I need to clarify the PCI express situation. There are 2 PCI Express standards right now. 1 and 2. the 2.0 offers double the peak speed of the original 1.0 version. BOTH versions can come in 1x, 4x, 8x, or 16x lane configurations. Intel 50-series chipsets to NOT support the 2.0 revision of the standard. All 1x ports on a 50-series chipset motherboard will operate at the 1.0 speeds only since they connect through the chipset. The confusion comes in because Intel processors for the LGA 1156 socket (and LGA 1155) have an addition PCI Express controller built right in which DOES support the new 2.0 revision. This controller only supports either one 16x or two 8x ports. On a motherboard with LGA 1156, there may be one or two Physical 16x ports, however, if there are 2, and both are used, they will only operate at 8x speeds. All other PCI express ports on one of these boards will only operate at the 1.0 specification speeds because they are linked through the chipset which doesn't support 2.0 speeds. NOTE: The 700 and 800-series chipsets from AMD and the 60-series chipsets from Intel run ALL PCI express lanes under the 2.0 revision, so there is no confusion with that.
In practice, you'd be unlikely to use much other than a single 16x pcie port for a graphics card. Don't get too antsy about expansion ports. They are good for adding missing connectivity like faster sata ports or USB3 if you don't have them and need them, but shouldn't be that big of a deal if they are already built in. Graphics cards can run perfectly fine with an 8x pcie connection just as mechanical hard drives
As some generic advice, the dominant connection standards are PCI express, sata, and usb. For upgrade purposes, it's smart to keep on top of the latest standards for these. They are all forward and backward compatible, but things are only as fast as the slowest link in the chain.
CPU's are a beast to upgrade these days with all the socket changes. Don't be afraid to splurge just a little on a good one, but don't get carried away. Prices inflate very fast at the top end. Graphics and storage are easy to upgrade and/or expand. They don't need to be enough for the whole life of a computer.
Blah. Enough for now. Hopefully I got all the current questions covered.
Yes, this is all extremely helpful. I may have forgotten to mention this, but this is only speculative. It will probably be a few years before I actually do this. But knowing what some of these stats mean and how to interpret them is very helpful for my general knowledge, so thank you.
Also, don't feel obligated to keep writing these walls of text, though I do very much enjoy them. I know it can be a pain to have to write an essay every time someone asks a question.
That being said... graphics cards. Does compatibility between mobos and graphics cards have only to do with the type of PCI slot, or are there other factors?
I don't write text walls because anyone asks me to or expects them of me, I just can't stop myself. This knowledge is built up like a pyramid in my head. If you want the juicy morels at the top, I gotta lay down a lot of foundation so you can understand those bits. I have fun doing it though. You teach stuff, so I'm sure you have some understanding of that peculiar form of fun. It's not something I indulge in often.
As for graphics cards, don't sweat those. If you have a pcie x16 slot to plug one into you can plug one into it, install the drivers and away you go. It's as simple as that. The only other considerations are cases when there is a physical 16x port that is only wired to operate at something like 4x. 16x is more than enough for any graphics cards of today. 8x is generally enough, but 4x may limit some of the faster cards. At least right now. PCIe 3.0 is due in another year or two. That may change things.
Now, this is probably entirely irrelevant because you're looking at Intel Processors and not gonna buy this for a few years. But I feel that I HAVE TO point out AMD's 3.2GHz Hexacore, because it's only 200 bucks. Not the BEST thing on the market, but it's a freaking steal man!
But nah, if you want to go with Intel that's cool too; I just figured I might mention...
Free game too. Those are pretty nice. My brother-in-law picked up his i5-2500K for around $190 from microcenter though. Like 30-40% faster. Also uses less power. That's why I kept going on about recommending the new Intel processors. And now I have a brother-in-law with a bugged motherboard. Stupid Intel just has to make me look bad.
Oh well. AMD has their "bulldozer" processors and a new socket/chipset for them coming out mid-year. Rumor says they are up to 50% faster than an 1100T. That would put them on level with the likes of the i7-980X and the i7-2600K if true. There could be quite the competition going down in the second half this year.
I'm not set on an Intel board. Honestly I feel like it's like someone who's never played games before choosing between a PS3 and a 360 but even more flabbergasting.
I know Matt has posted quite a bit about Intel vs. AMD though, so I guess when it comes time I'll just ask and I'm sure you'll know about where they stand.
Okay, here's my next question. Let's say that I buy all the components that I listed above. I've got everything that I need to put together a computer. After physically assembling it, do you have to actually set up the motherboard software (BIOS, maybe?) before installing the OS? I've never been clear on what role BIOS play for your average computer builder who doesn't really tamper much with system settings.
Comments
I haven't known anyone with an msi graphics card before. If you like the second option, I'd say there's probably nothing wrong with it. The Geforce 460 is indeed slower than the 6870 and the 50Mhz overclock won't change that. Additionally it'll consume a bit more power at load which translates to more heat, but the heatsink looks pretty good, so no matter. Both of those cards idle pretty well so they aren't big power hogs when you're not using them (unless you run more than 1 monitor). Price-wise, the Geforce seems like it'd probably be a better deal.
As for RAM, it's basically 4GB recommended for pretty much everyone. You could get 8 if you really want to I guess. I have 8, but it was really cheap at the time. I don't need that much.
Case
Motherboard
Graphics
Power Supply
Processor
Ram
Hard Drive
I'll probably also get a new fan for the CPU and I need a DVD Drive of some kind.
Those are all compatible right? (Feel free to make other suggestions.)
Case is not to my tastes in the looks department, but it's a reasonable steel case. I'd question if the fans in it might be a bit noisy, but I don't know how much noise bothers you. If you like the looks, no worries. It'll get the job done.
Motherboard is cheap, and if you're doing a self build on AMD parts, consider doing yourself a favor and find something with SATA 6Gbs ports. Specifically 6 of them as that'd be a dead give away that it's got the SB850 part which is their current southbridge chip of choice. Odds are any such motherboard would also have a couple USB 3.0 ports as well. Asus is a good brand though. Oh, and you picked a mATX motherboard which wouldn't require a case the size of what you picked. It'd still work, just wouldn't fill it. Not a major deal, but something I thought I'd point out.
Graphics I already chimed in on. As I said before my advice to the other person who will be building a computer in the near future would be to hold off on graphics for now and run integrated for a while, but that's based on getting some of the new Intel stuff coming out January 5th since the integrated graphics there will likely be pretty good, but I'll have to wait until then to know anything for sure. If you want good graphics now, your choice is perfectly fine.
Power supply...I'd never buy that one. Cheapo brand, somewhat excessive wattage rating and efficiency claims are likely bogus. It has no basic 80+ certification, let alone bronze/silver/gold ranking to back up it's "85%" claims. And personally I hate glowy parts, but that's just me. Also and most importantly, I have a friend who had a power supply of that brand (looked the same and all) that died and nuked half the parts in his computer, so...yeah. Short answer, I like power supplies from seasonic. Long answer, I'm gonna discuss power supplies, but separately here. For now I'll cover the other stuff.
Processor is good, though few if any games will really benefit from the 6 cores. AMD processors aren't the fastest and not the most efficient, but they are priced nicely. If you do anything that's very multi-core friendly one of these wouldn't be a bad deal.
Your ram is ok, though as a non-overclocker I usually avoid memory with higher listed voltages than the standard. DDR3 is intended to run at 1.5 volts under normal conditions. This memory is listed at 1.65 and intended for modest overclocking on Intel systems, though it would most likely work fine on an AMD system. Also those heatsinks on the ram are excessive and could be a problem for any aftermarket processor heatsinks. You're talking like you are considering a processor heatsink/fan, so keep that in mind.
The hard drive is sort of unexciting and I don't have much to say about it. Tech sites are favoring a Samsung F3, but I have no experience with that drive. Just figure I'd pass that info along. All I got to say myself is that I've had to work with Western Digital to replace a couple bad drives and it wasn't a very painful process. Any drive can go bad, so that's not a knock against WD. I'm not sure what it's like dealing with other companies to handle bad drives under warranty, but that may be a point of consideration. Also, remember that backups are important. A drive going bad is not so fun.
Later: In which I talk, likely at length, about power supplies.
I might wait for a while to buy these so I'll probably get to see the new Intel stuff and maybe get one of those if I like it.
I didn't know if the Motherboard or Power supply were "decent", so I'm glad I asked there.
The processor is supposed to have a Turbo Core thing where is shuts off three of the cores and boosts the power to the other three when it isn't using all of them. I was thinking I might see about over clocking it anyways.
I'll see if I can find some new RAM, some that won't get in the way.
Yeah, all the hard drives were pretty unexciting, this one just happened to be the least expensive Terrabyte one. I was gonna see if I could get a small extra one from my brother that he knows works for a backup drive.
I look forward to your... speech? I have no idea what I should be looking for with the Power Supplies.
Case (Same as it was before)
Motherboard
Graphics(Seen this one before too)
Power Supply
Processor (Same)
Ram
Hard Drive (Same old same old)
Wireless NIC
Blu-ray Burner
Blu-ray Player (Also DVD/CD Burner)
I still might get a new fan for the CPU, but I'm gonna see how well the fan that comes with it works first.
The blu-ray stuff and the wireless are mundane things. They do what they do. As long as they function I guess they are pretty much fine.
The motherboard is sort of a flip from cheap one before. Certainly good. Costs a bit more than I'd bother spending on a motherboard myself, but as I've said, I'm not an overclocker. I don't really know if the extra cost buys anything I care about. I guess I usually figure $80-100 if I'm going cheap or $100-150 if I want a nicer motherboard. If this one tickles your fancy and you don't mind spending a bit more it'd work nicely enough.
As for the power supply, well, you've picked a much better brand this time. The choice of an 850W unit also leads nicely into that talk of power supplies I wanted to do...
So, power supplies. To start with I'll just see if I can explain what exactly it does just to make sure you follow what I might talk about here. See a computer power supply is designed to take the 110V power from your wall outlet and convert it into 12V, 5V, 3.3V and such as is required by the motherboard and other parts. This is not a free process. A certain amount of the power converted is wasted and turned into heat. That's pretty much what happens to all the power your computer uses. More power = more heat, but that's a different topic. Anyway, a power supply will use something like 100W to provide 80W to your computer. That'd be an example of 80% efficiency. Power supplies don't have a single set efficiency rating of course. It varies with how much power is actually being consumed and how hot the components are and what voltage the power from the wall is and stuff like that.
So, a little history, power supplies of the not-so-distant past tended to only be 65-75% efficient on average. Then not too long ago power efficiency started getting more attention. Suddenly these power supplies seemed darn wasteful. A little program was started. Called 80 PLUS, it was basically a program that pushed power supplies to achieve efficiencies of 80% or higher at 20%, 50%, and 100% load. This program proved quite popular. In fact, the the vast majority now meet that specific standard. Makes for a nice marketing sticker I guess. Either way, they soon introduced new tiers to the program. Suddenly there were bronze, silver, and gold rankings. Initially these were pretty aggressive with few even managing bronze level. With more time, game more improvements and at this time bronze is now common, silver can be had easy enough, and there is even a fair selection of gold ranks. A platinum rank was added along the way, but this is still pretty aggressive to this day. According to the official 80 PLUS site, only 7 power supplies have received this rank.
The result of that is that efficiency can generically be referenced by the 80plus rank which helps. On the other hand, efficiency is measured according to percentages of maximum load, which leads to another power supply topic.
Most power supplies these days are rated for much high wattages that is necessary. The typical gaming computer of today might only use 80W at idle and 250W under a very heavy load. Still it's common to see power supplies ranging from 650-1200W. That's a LOT of power. Such is the draw of big numbers. Maybe people figure that it doesn't hurt to have extra. Not a bad sentiment. Power supplies are designed to hit peak efficiency at about 50% load after all. They expect you to have overhead. Then again, I could remind you again, that these handy 80plus certifications take measurements at percents of maximum load. I'll tell you that efficiency curves for power supplies tend to drop off sharply at very low loads. So...one of the easiest ways to achieve a higher efficiency rating is to run a power supply with a higher maximum wattage. 20% of say 850W is already 170W. If your computer is idling at 80W most of the time, you wouldn't even be halfway to reaching the first basic efficiency mark. Also, you'd NEVER hit the 50% peak rating. Not without a very power hungry system.
The end result is that the most efficient power supplies are the ones that hit higher ranks at lower maximum power outputs. Also, ideally you'd get a power supply with about twice the wattage rating as your computers expected power usage under high load. That way you reach that peak efficiency when you need it the most. Overclocking can increase power usage a bit, and running high end and/or multiple graphics cards can increase power usage quite a lot. If you wanted to run 2 Geforce GTX 480's and overclock your hopefully already fast processor, suddenly 850W seems quite reasonable if not even a touch stingy. Geforce GTX 480's are very power hungry though. The 460 is quite a lot less so. That's why you're looking at the 460 and not the 480. Also, the 480 was replaced by the 580 which uses a fair it less power and is also a fair bit faster.
Anyhow, that's my piece. Excess power ratings CAN hurt you by leaving you with poorer efficiency at idle. More expensive units might be worthwhile, but don't think this is a Watts/$ thing. It's most certainly not.
I said before my favored source of power supplies is a company by the name Seasonic. Part of that choice is that I also like my computers to be quiet. Well, if you read everything I just typed, you'd maybe understand why I find this appealing. It's a high efficiency unit (reviews show it to be a little better than gold spec) with a modest power rating and also silent. Fanless units can be a hazard of course. They do need some airflow, so they can be a little dangerous, but the fact that this can exist and has been shown to be a lot better and much more durable than older fanless power supplies sort of excites me a little. Seasonic makes some nice power supplies. In fact they make a lot of Corsair's units for them. Corsair doesn't actually manufacture their own power supplies, but they do have a very good reputation and are definitely a good choice to buy a power supply from, so you get kudos for that. That 850W unit is likely a good one...just possibly overkill depending on your future plans for your computer.
So, I'm kinda tiring of typing so I think I'll leave it at that for now.
Of course there are many choices if that one isn't to your liking. That list is no doubt woefully incomplete.
So, yeah. Sandy Bridge day. Intels "new stuff". Lots of info, yes? I need sleep right now. I can fuss over this later.
On a slightly better note, the Motherboard is WAY more fucking awesome than I thought. And everything else seems to work, not sure about the Wireless NIC though, as I haven't really gotten on a network, what with the lack of hard drives.
Edit: Oh right, ALSO!!! Apparently the "Sniper RAM" is a gaming thing, and it's really awesome RAM that's good for gaming, which is good as that's what I plan to do with it.
There is nothing about ram that would make it specifically good for gaming. Higher performance memory can increase performance but usually only marginally. It rarely pays for the extra cost. The sniper ram looked pretty ordinary by the specifications. I'd say it's all a bunch of marketing smoke. Price was pretty ordinary though so it's mostly free marketing smoke.
Bummer on the hard drives. I guess it happens sometimes. Hitachi is a much smaller player in the hard drive market than the likes of WD, Seagate, and Samsung. I favor WD or Samsung myself. In search of quieter drives.
Also keep the antistatic bags the Hard drives ship in! I think I forgot to say that before. You need those if you have to ship them back.
The RAM has slightly increased timing as I recall, however most the RAM of that size also has increased timing by the same amount, so compared to similar RAM isn't not much different. But yeah, it's probably mostly marketing.
I'm thinking I might get a refund and get the SLIGHTLY more expensive Samsung Drives; but we'll see how that goes.
Got my replacement hard drives, both seem to work perfectly fine, hopefully they'll continue working perfectly fine. I've got them set up in a RAID 1 configuration. Now I've just gotta reinstall everything and move some files and I should actually be able to DO THINGS with me computer. YAY!!!
Good to hear the drives are working.
Edit: Yup, just me totally screwing everything up. I updated the BIOS, which reset all the BIOS settings, which totally fucked up my RAID configuration. Not to worry though, a quick reformating/reraiding of the drives and a reinstallation of Windows 7 seems to have fixed it.
So, maybe some of you can slowly start to help me demystify this process. I went over to Newegg and just started looking at basic stuff, but motherboards in particular got me flustered very quickly. There are a few things that I can understand: memory type and available memory slots (I'm thinking that I'd want to go for 4 slots for DDR3 memory) and I'd like to be able to fit a quad-core processor or higher. But I'm still slightly confused.
So how about some interpretive help with this one. The first question I have is this: is this something that only allows for a single-core i7 processor? And what sort of PCI slots do I want? What all uses PCI slots besides the graphics card?
This looks almost like an Intel copy of the AMD motherboard I got for my computer. If it is, the motherboard is AWESOME; if not I have no idea. >_<
One of the things you'll want to look for with processors and motherboards is what type of CPU Socket it has. The board here says it uses a LGA 1156 Socket, which it looks like some of the cheaper i7 processors use. That hexa core i7 and some of the more expensive/new ones use a LGA 1366.
Unless you plan to have a dedicated sound card or wireless Network Interface Card (NIC) you probably won't use anything other than those 2 PCIe x16 ports, and you'll only use one of those unless you get 2 graphics cards.
Also RAM operates at various speeds, similar to hard drives and CPUs, so make sure you look at the speed of your RAM as well.
X is better at this "Computer Knowledge" thing than I am though so you might wait to see what he has to say, but there's a few questions answered...
Boy that's a lot of questions, which beget more questions at some point. I'll try to keep this at least somewhat short.
For starters the basic heart of a motherboard is a chipset. The chipset might actually be a single chip or it might be made up of a more traditional 2 chips. The term "chipset" is actually being brought into question lately. Regardless, the chipset is probably the most important consideration for a new motherboard if only because a given chipset will usually determine which processor socket is attached to it as well.
Your example motherboard here has an P55 chipset. A quick google search pulls up an old review of some P55 motherboards here:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/17513
I specifically wish to point out the diagram. It gives you a nice little simplified view of what's all in that chipset, because that determines what sort of ports a motherboard can have. Not everything needs to be part of the chipset of course. Extra chips can be added and connected to the chipset via a pci express link or some such thing. This is how you get USB 3 in fact.
The expansion ports also connect to the chipset through pci express links. In this particular case the processor itself will also contain a pci express controller and 1 or 2 of the larger ports on the motherboard will be connected directly to the processor socket.
This leads to connectivity. The main force in expansion right now is PCI express. This should not be mistaken for PCI. PCI is an old standard that has run for a very long time. Due to it's age and how heavily it was used you still see old PCI ports on even modern motherboards, including this one. PCI ports all share bandwidth and provide a combined total theoretical speed of 133MB/s if I recall correctly.
PCI express changes to a serial connection so different ports do not share bandwidth. It comes in varying speeds by running 1, 4, 8, or 16 lanes. A single lane provides 256MB/s of bandwidth, so it's much faster than older PCI ports. There is also a newer generation of PCIe that doubles the bandwidth. You'll note from the diagram I pointed out that the processor provides the newer sort of PCI express while the chipset part actually runs the original flavor.
I'm going to leave it at this for now. Ask more questions as you please. I'll try to answer them, or provide links to sites that maybe explain things better than I can. There's a lot of code words and acronyms to remember when trying to sort all this stuff out, and it makes it hard to explain things when I don't know which ones you do and don't know.
ETA: Intel had launched some new processors that basically kick all kinds of ass a few weeks ago, but this last monday it came out that ALL the new chipsets that came out to support the new processors contained an error that potentially would cause some of (not all) the sata ports to die over time, so shipments were halted and the new products were pulled from the shelves. If you didn't get one of those already you'll have to wait another month or two for a bug-free version. If you are my brother-in-law you are already running the new kit and are just opting to not use the bugged ports much.
Okay, next question then. I see three different types of PCI Express ports here: 2.0 x16, x16, and regular. What's the difference between these?
Okay, so taking the information about CPU sockets, I'm guessing I do want the next step up, so I searched for a bit and found this one: it seems to be better suited to future expansion (I guess?). Seems that this socket type must be bleeding edge or something, though, since there aren't a whole lot of offerings for less than $200. Do you think the upgrade would be worth it?
So, if you're still up for answering questions for me.... maybe we can do this. Let's say I've bought a case, power supply, memory, motherboard, processor, hard drive, DVD drive, OS, and graphics card. Unless I'm forgetting something, this is all that I know that I need. Is there something else that I need for a fully-functioning computer? Is extra cooling (like heatsinks) necessary, or do computers generally have enough cooling power if you don't overclock them? (overclocking is something I'm confused about too, but that can wait... or I can look it up. Which I will.)
This motherboard looks pretty awesome as well. If you have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and speakers that list of stuff looks good as well.
As for the extra fans, generally depends on how many your computer has anyways, and how fast the specific parts heat up. If you get a well ventilated case with a couple fans in it you should be good.
Most processors come with a "stock" heatsink that is usually good enough. However, better coolers can be had which can keep a processor a bit cooler and also may operate more quietly. If you want to overclock a lot or if you want a really quiet computer, or are just paranoid about processor temps, a better processor cooler can be nice, but it's not strictly necessary. Additional fans are another exercise in subtlety as different models operate at different speeds and some are quieter than others. Most cases and coolers come with adequate fans, but they may not be really quiet for the obsessive (I'm slightly obsessive).
Regarding sockets, chipsets and sockets go hand-in-hand usually and I think the issue with Intel is confusing market segmentation. LGA1366 and the X58 chipset as found on this new motherboard was the original launch platform for the Core i7 series and was aimed at the very high-end. It came out in January of 2009 and is already 2-year-old tech. Not actually much of an upgrade. LGA 1156 is actually newer and introduced new things but aimed to be more mainstream, hence why it is cheaper. Even 1156 is basically out of date now too. Some new processors came out for LGA 1155, but this is currently in flux do to the mentioned errata issue in the new chipsets. Thing is, Intel still officially supports LGA 1366 and x58 for the high-end market, since 1156 and 1155 are technically mainstream. X58 and LGA 1366 will be replaced in the later months of this year with another overpriced platform and a a different socket again.
So I would not recommend LGA1366 or X58. It's old. It's expensive. The processors for 1366 are also very expensive for little to no gain. Heck you can spend a couple hundred extra bucks for the privilege of running a slower processor because you did not spend enough extra yet.
I can only really recommend LGA 1155 stuff at this point, except it's hard to find since the associated H67/P67 chipsets are bugged so 4 of the 6 sata ports (that's what modern hard drives and DVD drives use to connect to the motherboard) might get slow or stop working within a few years of use. If not for that, it would blatantly be the best value on the market for a speedier machine. This bug thing throws recommendations for a loop, so I'm not sure what to tell you for the moment. I'm not really a huge fan of 50-series chipsets from Intel. I'd choose AMD over that myself, but...if you taste the new stuff, any of the older stuff just isn't as sweet, ya know? Mid-year should see a big launch or two from AMD that puts them back on the map, but that's several months away yet. Intel's "Sandy Bridge" will be back in action in a couple months with the bug fixed.
Also a note on processor naming from Intel: i7, i5, and i3 don't actually have much to do with number of cores. The naming is confusing and some i5's are faster than some i7's, specifically when comparing 1366 i7's to 1156 i5's. Benchmarks are better than specifications.
Oh right. I feel I need to clarify the PCI express situation. There are 2 PCI Express standards right now. 1 and 2. the 2.0 offers double the peak speed of the original 1.0 version. BOTH versions can come in 1x, 4x, 8x, or 16x lane configurations. Intel 50-series chipsets to NOT support the 2.0 revision of the standard. All 1x ports on a 50-series chipset motherboard will operate at the 1.0 speeds only since they connect through the chipset. The confusion comes in because Intel processors for the LGA 1156 socket (and LGA 1155) have an addition PCI Express controller built right in which DOES support the new 2.0 revision. This controller only supports either one 16x or two 8x ports. On a motherboard with LGA 1156, there may be one or two Physical 16x ports, however, if there are 2, and both are used, they will only operate at 8x speeds. All other PCI express ports on one of these boards will only operate at the 1.0 specification speeds because they are linked through the chipset which doesn't support 2.0 speeds. NOTE: The 700 and 800-series chipsets from AMD and the 60-series chipsets from Intel run ALL PCI express lanes under the 2.0 revision, so there is no confusion with that.
In practice, you'd be unlikely to use much other than a single 16x pcie port for a graphics card. Don't get too antsy about expansion ports. They are good for adding missing connectivity like faster sata ports or USB3 if you don't have them and need them, but shouldn't be that big of a deal if they are already built in. Graphics cards can run perfectly fine with an 8x pcie connection just as mechanical hard drives
As some generic advice, the dominant connection standards are PCI express, sata, and usb. For upgrade purposes, it's smart to keep on top of the latest standards for these. They are all forward and backward compatible, but things are only as fast as the slowest link in the chain.
CPU's are a beast to upgrade these days with all the socket changes. Don't be afraid to splurge just a little on a good one, but don't get carried away. Prices inflate very fast at the top end. Graphics and storage are easy to upgrade and/or expand. They don't need to be enough for the whole life of a computer.
Blah. Enough for now. Hopefully I got all the current questions covered.
Also, don't feel obligated to keep writing these walls of text, though I do very much enjoy them. I know it can be a pain to have to write an essay every time someone asks a question.
That being said... graphics cards. Does compatibility between mobos and graphics cards have only to do with the type of PCI slot, or are there other factors?
As for graphics cards, don't sweat those. If you have a pcie x16 slot to plug one into you can plug one into it, install the drivers and away you go. It's as simple as that. The only other considerations are cases when there is a physical 16x port that is only wired to operate at something like 4x. 16x is more than enough for any graphics cards of today. 8x is generally enough, but 4x may limit some of the faster cards. At least right now. PCIe 3.0 is due in another year or two. That may change things.
But nah, if you want to go with Intel that's cool too; I just figured I might mention...
Link if anyone wants it.
Oh well. AMD has their "bulldozer" processors and a new socket/chipset for them coming out mid-year. Rumor says they are up to 50% faster than an 1100T. That would put them on level with the likes of the i7-980X and the i7-2600K if true. There could be quite the competition going down in the second half this year.
I know Matt has posted quite a bit about Intel vs. AMD though, so I guess when it comes time I'll just ask and I'm sure you'll know about where they stand.
Okay, here's my next question. Let's say that I buy all the components that I listed above. I've got everything that I need to put together a computer. After physically assembling it, do you have to actually set up the motherboard software (BIOS, maybe?) before installing the OS? I've never been clear on what role BIOS play for your average computer builder who doesn't really tamper much with system settings.
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