I skimmed the transcript during lunch today. I am getting really tired of McCain's negative strategy. Obama too, but McCain's doing it much worse.
And seriously, what was up with Joe the Plumber? I don't care about him.
I loved Obama's response to the question about Palin being qualified to be president. I would've loved it more if he were more blunt though and just said "nope". That would've been awesome.
I do have to say that Joe the Plumber was a very important point made by McCain. He represented all small business owners that McCain has been claiming will by Obama's $250,000+ income tax increase. I don't know how many of you have ever worked in construction, but "Joe" is a huge part of the industry. Contracting licenses are expensive, not to mention insurance. You get a guy with a license and he can employ a few guys who will work under that license. He now has a work force and is a small business owner. There is a shitload of overhead, and $250,000/year with just 3 employees even, is nothing. Even when adjusted for business expenses. It's hard enough to compete legally without having a larger chunk of your "profits" taken. All that'll happen is the guy trying to do things legally (i.e. has a license, paying legal citizens on the books) will have to charge more and he'll get less work. I honestly feel that Obama's tax plan is going to be bad for the economy.
First of all, you literally cannot legally survive on Long island if you earn $30,000/year. I'm not saying you can't have a nice house or that you can't go on vacation. I mean you literally can't do it. You can't rent a legal apartment for less than $800/month. That obviously won't include utilities. Second, it has nothing to do with how well off the business owner is, it has to do with how much he can afford to invest in his business. And a rough estimate for a few contractors I've worked with is from $30,000-$50,000. That's for guys trying to support a family. I know of contractors making half a million plus. Those're the ones who build the mansions for people out in the Hamptons. But for your average contractor working with 4 or 5 guys on any one project, he's probably only earning a couple grand for himself per contract. Assume a month for each contract. Sometimes you can have 2 going at once. That's if the market is doing well and there's enough work for everyone. Because most homeowners are gonna give their work to the cheaper guy with no insurance using the illegal immigrants.
Well Adam, it's important to note that you live in one of the most expensive parts of the US. I have had some experience with the construction industry, but far less than you have.
A few summers back I worked concrete foundations full time for 60 hours a week. My job was considered to be very good pay by bumfuck Iowa standards: I made $10 bucks an hour, plus 1.5x pay for overtime, which I usually did for 10+ hours a week. I average $450 a week after taxes (maybe $500 before, I forget). So the other guys I did that with made approximately $23,400 a year after taxes. Maybe a little more, since many of them probably worked there longer and earned raises.
But this was survivable money (I say was because this was before the economic crisis, I don't know how they're doing now). They didn't exactly snack on Toblerones during work, but they had enough money to go out and get shitfaced drunk every weekend and make their rent payments.
And it's important to note that my construction company did stuff legit too. No illegals, and everyone was hired through proper channels.
As for the owner of the company... he made decent money, but $250k a year? I'd have to look into it. I don't know if it would affect him as much. My mom was friends with the owner's wife, so she might know a thing or two. I'll look into it and post again later. My guess is that Obama's plan might not negatively affect people in the Midwest as it might in New York, but I can't say for sure. I'll look into it.
Obama's tax increase on incomes from $227K-$603K is very minor. Only those with at least $603,000 in income would see a dramatic decline in their after-tax income. I'm not very sympathetic to Joe the Plumber's objection.
I assume you're joking. But since I know people who think like that, I'll give a serious answer.
The main, popular media, have no political afiliation. From a libral stand point it seem's conservitive, from conservitive's it seems libral. the news networks simply go with what ever is prevailent at the moment, presumibly to gain veiwers, they are a joke. They are not pro-life and they are not pro-choice, They are pro-money.
All that over a joke? I AM nuts.
Edit: but in a good way.
OK, I started writing this in the fucked up news thread then got pissed off and went on a huge rant, so i'm moving it here. this is probably very offensive, so don't read it if you don't want to
Whatever. the deceased always vote in record numbers for the democrats. Meanwhile the ballots get lost in minority areas. Everybody knows that both sides cheat, my biggest issue is that stricter voting requirements are always considered biased against minorities. It's not that fucking hard to go to the damn DMV and get a fucking state ID. I don't know about other states, but in NY it's actually law that you have a state ID on you at all times. Nobody ever enforces it, but it is the fucking law. A driver's license counts, if you don't drive you go and get a non-driver's ID. Are people really that fucking lazy? I've working with welfare programs and I have a pretty good idea about how the system works. Advocacy groups are always bitching about how information about stuff like these IDs or other state issued aid and state programs are hidden from or not made readilly accessible to people. It's all bullshit! If you ever entered a library or a post-office or ANY public facility you will see posters with contact information and groups who's sole purpose is to help direct people to a program for which they qualify. Do we have to go to every fucking house and trak down every last person and spoon feed them the god damned information? At what point are people responsible for themselves? I spent a fucking half-hour with a woman today trying to convince her to call the fucking maintainence office to see if they'd fix her hot water in her apartment. "oh they probably won't", "they don't know how, I bet". JUST FUCKING CALL! "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". We are fucking dragging these horses to teh water and shoing their goddamn faces into the water and then we bitch that we're not doing enough because they still aren't drinking. I'm sick of these helpless morons! Nobody ever taught me how to use a voting machine, I took a look at it and figured it out. Nobody taught me how to use a computer, I didn't have one so i went to the library and figured it out. There is this woman that my brotehr and his wife basically adopted. She had a baby with some fucking punk, he left her and then she goes and has another baby with teh same fucking guy, and he left ehr again. They help her as much as they can. I get stuck helping her a lot. She doesn't learn. They taught her how to budget money for food, she can't do it. They laid out a budget for her to follow, she couldn't do it. She told me she had a problem with her car but was afraid the mechanic would take advantage of her because "I'm a woman and I don't know about cars" I showed her the fucking chilton books in the library and showed her how to look up estimates and how to diagnose the problems online. She sees it all and just looks back helplessly, "oh, but I don't know how to use that" I JUST FUCKING SHOWED YOU! I DID IT FOR YOU! I just can't stand these fucking people or anybody who tries to tell me that they are discriminated against. The only disadvantage they have is that nobody ever made them do anythign for themselves.
My mom works in one of those financial support offices, mostly dealing with divorced dads who don't pay for their children. She has to deal with Behemoth's "just won't learn" people all the time. They really do need to get a clue.
It's impressive how Atlas Shrugged can be applied to so many situations, just cuz so many things depend on the people who manage them. Those people who can't help themselves would be classified as "Looters," and they are the bad guy.
Except, don't get crazy with that idea. I will still give people the benefit of the doubt, if I come across a person who is amazingly incapable of doing anything positive for himself. Honestly, it's probably just because I haven't had to deal with so many of those people in my life yet.
In Atlas Shrugged (by Ayn Rand, tis one of those annoying obscure literature book references Adam referred to earlier in the other thread), the looters aren't the victims, because, by not helping themselves in any way, and just taking whatever OTHER people gain for them, they deserve to go down.
But yet again, taken in the extreme, you would just hate all of humanity. There is no way (in my opinion) you could absolutely do EVERYTHING just for yourself (and the people you valued) and still be happy with your life. I suspect you would just be sick with the rest of the world. SO, that reality thing is a nice thing to look at every now and then. Still, if you tend not to obsess over things you get into, it's a good book.
OH!! And I meant to comment on this before but I forgot to add it at the end: I don't think it's quite minorites who are the problem (who are the helpless, worthless bunch of society), but the people in poverty. I don't care if they happen to be very similar to each other; I know so many incredibly intelligent minority families who are just as capable, if not better off, at succeeding at things as my family is. I also know white families who are NOT very good at accomplishing things. You've got to understand that if kids grow up with complete loser parents, it's hard to:
a) realize your parents are morons, since just about everyone is born loving their parents. Realizing your parents are losers has got to hit hard, if the kids ever realize there's anything better out there for them at all.
b) get over that family trend of not accomplishing anything (self-fulfilled prophecy: figuring since your parents are both losers, there's no hope for you, so why bother trying)
c) Rise above the other crap life shoves at you for coming from such a sorry household.
Still doesn't mean that the solution is to have as much sympathy for them as possible and give them everything so that they won't starve from ineptitude... I just can't see myself ever NOT having at least a little bit of sympathy for them. I'm just lucky I was born in the life I have now.
Who ever said the helpless ones were minorities? that was just the ones that stricter voter requirements are said to adversly affect. The latter examples were both white women.
I completely realize those points. But at the same time, it's tough to feel bad for someone who rolls up to collect free food in a brand new Cadillac because his parents were both losers, but they taught him how to milk the system.
Who ever said the helpless ones were minorities? that was just the ones that stricter voter requirements are said to adversly affect. The latter examples were both white women.
I completely realize those points. But at the same time, it's tough to feel bad for someone who rolls up to collect free food in a brand new Cadillac because his parents were both losers, but they taught him how to milk the system.
Ah, sorry, I thought it was implied. You mentioned minorities and then started talking about inept people. I think I might have assumed the hint of racism because I try to correct my mom a lot... Silly older generation, and their teachings from the older older generation.
Did anybody catch the Diane Rehm Show on NPR today? I'm pissed off again, now. She had some lady from ACORN talking about how it was all a smear campaign to disenfranchise minority voters and a republican guy talking about all the various instances of voter registration fraud they'd uncovered. The whole thing can pretty much be summed up with one little exchange. The republican mentioned that a dozen NYers who all voted in the Democratic Primaries in NY were requesting absentee ballots for Ohio. All for the same address. The ACORN lady's response was, "requesting a ballot is not a crime, people move all the time." Every single attack was countered with "it's not technically illegal or fraud until they vote" a dozen fucking people all moving into the same fucking house, yet staying in NY and requesting absentee ballots isn't fraud? Once the people vote, it's too late to check for fraud. And still, if you try to have stricter voting registration requirements, it's a huge republican conspiracy to disenfranchise minority voters. I can't take this any more.
Comments
And seriously, what was up with Joe the Plumber? I don't care about him.
I loved Obama's response to the question about Palin being qualified to be president. I would've loved it more if he were more blunt though and just said "nope". That would've been awesome.
A few summers back I worked concrete foundations full time for 60 hours a week. My job was considered to be very good pay by bumfuck Iowa standards: I made $10 bucks an hour, plus 1.5x pay for overtime, which I usually did for 10+ hours a week. I average $450 a week after taxes (maybe $500 before, I forget). So the other guys I did that with made approximately $23,400 a year after taxes. Maybe a little more, since many of them probably worked there longer and earned raises.
But this was survivable money (I say was because this was before the economic crisis, I don't know how they're doing now). They didn't exactly snack on Toblerones during work, but they had enough money to go out and get shitfaced drunk every weekend and make their rent payments.
And it's important to note that my construction company did stuff legit too. No illegals, and everyone was hired through proper channels.
As for the owner of the company... he made decent money, but $250k a year? I'd have to look into it. I don't know if it would affect him as much. My mom was friends with the owner's wife, so she might know a thing or two. I'll look into it and post again later. My guess is that Obama's plan might not negatively affect people in the Midwest as it might in New York, but I can't say for sure. I'll look into it.
Thus: no pity.
Obama's tax increase on incomes from $227K-$603K is very minor. Only those with at least $603,000 in income would see a dramatic decline in their after-tax income. I'm not very sympathetic to Joe the Plumber's objection.
Here's a good article on the subject.
The main, popular media, have no political afiliation. From a libral stand point it seem's conservitive, from conservitive's it seems libral. the news networks simply go with what ever is prevailent at the moment, presumibly to gain veiwers, they are a joke. They are not pro-life and they are not pro-choice, They are pro-money.
All that over a joke? I AM nuts.
Edit: but in a good way.
Whatever. the deceased always vote in record numbers for the democrats. Meanwhile the ballots get lost in minority areas. Everybody knows that both sides cheat, my biggest issue is that stricter voting requirements are always considered biased against minorities. It's not that fucking hard to go to the damn DMV and get a fucking state ID. I don't know about other states, but in NY it's actually law that you have a state ID on you at all times. Nobody ever enforces it, but it is the fucking law. A driver's license counts, if you don't drive you go and get a non-driver's ID. Are people really that fucking lazy? I've working with welfare programs and I have a pretty good idea about how the system works. Advocacy groups are always bitching about how information about stuff like these IDs or other state issued aid and state programs are hidden from or not made readilly accessible to people. It's all bullshit! If you ever entered a library or a post-office or ANY public facility you will see posters with contact information and groups who's sole purpose is to help direct people to a program for which they qualify. Do we have to go to every fucking house and trak down every last person and spoon feed them the god damned information? At what point are people responsible for themselves? I spent a fucking half-hour with a woman today trying to convince her to call the fucking maintainence office to see if they'd fix her hot water in her apartment. "oh they probably won't", "they don't know how, I bet". JUST FUCKING CALL! "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". We are fucking dragging these horses to teh water and shoing their goddamn faces into the water and then we bitch that we're not doing enough because they still aren't drinking. I'm sick of these helpless morons! Nobody ever taught me how to use a voting machine, I took a look at it and figured it out. Nobody taught me how to use a computer, I didn't have one so i went to the library and figured it out. There is this woman that my brotehr and his wife basically adopted. She had a baby with some fucking punk, he left her and then she goes and has another baby with teh same fucking guy, and he left ehr again. They help her as much as they can. I get stuck helping her a lot. She doesn't learn. They taught her how to budget money for food, she can't do it. They laid out a budget for her to follow, she couldn't do it. She told me she had a problem with her car but was afraid the mechanic would take advantage of her because "I'm a woman and I don't know about cars" I showed her the fucking chilton books in the library and showed her how to look up estimates and how to diagnose the problems online. She sees it all and just looks back helplessly, "oh, but I don't know how to use that" I JUST FUCKING SHOWED YOU! I DID IT FOR YOU! I just can't stand these fucking people or anybody who tries to tell me that they are discriminated against. The only disadvantage they have is that nobody ever made them do anythign for themselves.
Yep, this is the internet.
Edit: although you are right in that stupid people are a drain on society, I'll concede that.
Except, don't get crazy with that idea. I will still give people the benefit of the doubt, if I come across a person who is amazingly incapable of doing anything positive for himself. Honestly, it's probably just because I haven't had to deal with so many of those people in my life yet.
But yet again, taken in the extreme, you would just hate all of humanity. There is no way (in my opinion) you could absolutely do EVERYTHING just for yourself (and the people you valued) and still be happy with your life. I suspect you would just be sick with the rest of the world. SO, that reality thing is a nice thing to look at every now and then. Still, if you tend not to obsess over things you get into, it's a good book.
OH!! And I meant to comment on this before but I forgot to add it at the end: I don't think it's quite minorites who are the problem (who are the helpless, worthless bunch of society), but the people in poverty. I don't care if they happen to be very similar to each other; I know so many incredibly intelligent minority families who are just as capable, if not better off, at succeeding at things as my family is. I also know white families who are NOT very good at accomplishing things. You've got to understand that if kids grow up with complete loser parents, it's hard to:
a) realize your parents are morons, since just about everyone is born loving their parents. Realizing your parents are losers has got to hit hard, if the kids ever realize there's anything better out there for them at all.
b) get over that family trend of not accomplishing anything (self-fulfilled prophecy: figuring since your parents are both losers, there's no hope for you, so why bother trying)
c) Rise above the other crap life shoves at you for coming from such a sorry household.
Still doesn't mean that the solution is to have as much sympathy for them as possible and give them everything so that they won't starve from ineptitude... I just can't see myself ever NOT having at least a little bit of sympathy for them. I'm just lucky I was born in the life I have now.
I completely realize those points. But at the same time, it's tough to feel bad for someone who rolls up to collect free food in a brand new Cadillac because his parents were both losers, but they taught him how to milk the system.
Edit: Didn't see Behemoth's post. Ah well..
Okay, so it's actually George Butt and John Kerass
See, Ryan, the Thompson child was no surprise to me.