"This accident was truly a mystery to me," said Bizilj, director of emergency medicine at Johnson Memorial Hospital in Stafford, Conn. "This is a horrible event, a horrible travesty, and I really don't know why it happened."
Really?! You don't know how your 8 year old son shot himself with a fully automatic weapon? Is that truly out of the realm of possibility?
PALM BEACH GARDENS, FL – A Palm City woman says an Affliction t-shirt she saw in Nordstrom is offensive. The department store chain agreed with her and removed the shirt from all of its stores.
The famous Millennium painting has striking similarities and differences to a t-shirt made by Affliction.
Judy Carbo describes the t-shirt, which shows a skeleton holding Baby Jesus, as demonic. The Millennium painting shows Mary holding Jesus.
Judy was in disbelief when she saw the shirt for sale in Nordstrom.
"As a Catholic and a Christian, it was offensive all the way around. We consider her holy," says Judy.
Judy, who is a devout Catholic, says the image on the shirt was offensive enough to say, ‘enough.’ She asked the store at the Gardens Mall to pull the shirt. They did.
Judy says, "If you were Jewish, you wouldn’t want to see a swastika on a shirt. If you were African-American, you wouldn't want to see anything desecrating you."
The Affliction brand is sold at department stores and small trendy shops. We visited several. The t-shirt was either not on shelves or sold-out. So, we brought a picture of it to find out what people thought.
Regardless of their faith, people we talked to in downtown West Palm Beach overwhelming were offended by the shirt. Here are a few statements from people we ran into:
"I would complain. I'm religious and I don't find it interesting."
"I don't like the looks of it."
"I think its more taste. The way they have the halo is offensive to me."
A group of teens did think the shirt was "cool."
In response to Judy’s complaint, Nordstrom looked at their entire Affliction selection. The chain pulled the shirt and two others – nationwide. A spokesperson for Nordstrom says, "The Company empowers its buyers and clearly someone made a bad choice. A mistake was made and fixed."
Judy does not want the shirt sold anywhere. She would also like to talk to the head of Affliction.
Well, the shirt expressed a view she was not in agreement with. It follows that she had to censor it. I fail to see the effed-up aspect of this situation.
Now, I just finished Fahrenheit 451 (my copy had an interview with the author in the back) and it seems like this is exactly what he was talking about. A group of people get upset over a little thing, and demand it be removed, destroyed, re-written, whatever. This keeps happening until everything is boiled down to nothing. No message or meaning whatsoever. I just don't get what the big deal is about. Someone will always be offended by something, so people should just learn to deal with things they are offended by, instead of getting all riled up over nothing.
Well, the shirt expressed a view she was not in agreement with. It follows that she had to censor it. I fail to see the effed-up aspect of this situation.
So, since I'm an agnostic, I should demand companies to cease production and distribution of shirts with quotes from the Bible? I fail to see a difference in these scenarios.
Queen, you get +1 Respect from me for reading Fahrenheit 451. I love Ray Bradbury.
It's fucked up because she's actually making progress for this. While not as violent, she is just as fundamentalist and closed-minded as the Muslims who got into a fiery rage for images of Muhammad a few years back. She as a Christian found this offensive, and with total disregard for other beliefs, not to mention the right of free speech, she decided it was her duty to convince others to stop selling it. And she wants it removed from shelves all over the nation.
And, she did compare it to the holocaust, and a bit more subtly towards black oppression, which is just a disgusting comparison.
This is obviously a stupid thing to do, since we should all be tolerant of the views and beliefs of others, however I have to agree with Blob on this one: I just don't see what's so fucked up about it.
One woman saw a t-shirt she thought was too offensive, she reached the retailer, the retailer decided to stop carrying it: it's consent between two persons, and it doesn't affect anyone else. It's very probable that other stores carry the shirt, and if not, the manufacturer and/or author can contact them in order to sell their merchandise. Heck, if I want one so bad I can contact the manufacturer myself. No one's rights have been transgressed, or anything of the sort.
It would be different if she had rallied for the government, senate, etc., to ban or censor the shirt, then we would be actually talking about a real violation of free speech (supposing the government had complied).
Well, I think she's just being oversensitive. The shirt isn't hurting anyone, it's not encouraging violence, it's not suggesting Christians are all puppy-killers. It's just a picture. If she finds it objectionable, then she can just not buy it.
I'm more or less atheist, and I agree with god's hypothetical. I don't really like t-shirts with Bible messages or other Christian views. Back in college there was a guy who wore a shirt all the time that said "Fight Moral Relativism". To my set of beliefs, I found it inflammatory and lined with intolerance and hatred. I thought he was damn stupid, but I didn't tell him not to wear the shirt, nor did I try to find out where the shirt was made so it could not be sold or distributed anymore. I just made a choice to ignore it.
It's surprisingly easy! Instead of making a huge ordeal about a shirt you don't like, you simple move on and continue your shopping.
Edit: Roberto, it might not have been consensual. Angry Christians can make a lot of noise, and chances are Nordstoms removed the shirt simply to avoid making a scene.
It is a cool shirt, and I understand it could be offensive, but there's no need to riled up over nothing. If she's "right" about "God" then the manufacturers are probably going to hell anyways...
Like I said, it's obvious that what she did is not the best choice for people living in a society. Still, it's probably not such a big deal as the news about people raping their daughters and killing them that are posted on this same thread, that's all I'm saying.
All in all, I think that now I might too start protesting about shirts that offend me. I swear I will try to get at least one store to stop selling Che Guevara shirts.
Yeah, executing hundreds if not thousands of people without a trial and then sending a foreign country's economy straight to the gutter is pretty cool in my book too.
As far as I can tell Kukopanki knows something you don't Blob. You seem to have a knack for insulting people, (no offense, seriously) don't push your luck.
MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- Somalia's increasingly brazen pirates are building sprawling stone houses, cruising in luxury cars, marrying beautiful women -- even hiring caterers to prepare Western-style food for their hostages.
And in an impoverished country where every public institution has crumbled, they have become heroes in the steamy coastal dens they operate from because they are the only real business in town.
"The pirates depend on us, and we benefit from them," said Sahra Sheik Dahir, a shop owner in Haradhere, the nearest village to where a hijacked Saudi Arabian supertanker carrying $100 million in crude was anchored Wednesday.
These boomtowns are all the more shocking in light of Somalia's violence and poverty: Radical Islamists control most of the country's south, meting out lashings and stonings for accused criminals. There has been no effective central government in nearly 20 years, plunging this arid African country into chaos.
Life expectancy is just 46 years; a quarter of children die before they reach 5.
But in northern coastal towns like Haradhere, Eyl and Bossaso, the pirate economy is thriving thanks to the money pouring in from pirate ransoms that have reached $30 million this year alone.
In Haradhere, residents came out in droves to celebrate as the looming oil ship came into focus this week off the country's lawless coast. Businessmen started gathering cigarettes, food and cold glass bottles of orange soda, setting up small kiosks for the pirates who come to shore to re-supply almost daily.
Dahir said she is so confident in the pirates, she instituted a layaway plan just for them.
"They always take things without paying and we put them into the book of debts," she told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "Later, when they get the ransom money, they pay us a lot."
For Somalis, the simple fact that pirates offer jobs is enough to gain their esteem, even as hostages languish on ships for months. The population makes sure the pirates are well-stocked in qat, a popular narcotic leaf, and offer support from the ground even as the international community tries to quash them.
"Regardless of how the money is coming in, legally or illegally, I can say it has started a life in our town," said Shamso Moalim, a 36-year-old mother of five in Haradhere.
"Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are happy."
Despite a beefed-up international presence, the pirates continue to seize ships, moving further out to sea and demanding ever-larger ransoms. The pirates operate mostly from the semiautonomous Puntland region, where local lawmakers have been accused of helping the pirates and taking a cut of the ransoms.
For the most part, however, the regional officials say they have no power to stop piracy.
Meanwhile, towns that once were eroded by years of poverty and chaos are now bustling with restaurants, Land Cruisers and Internet cafes. Residents also use their gains to buy generators -- allowing full days of electricity, once an unimaginable luxury in Somalia.
There are no reliable estimates of the number of pirates operating in Somalia, but they must number in the thousands. And though the bandits do sometimes get nabbed, piracy is generally considered a sure bet to a better life.
NATO and the U.S. Navy say they can't be everywhere, and American officials are urging ships to hire private security. Warships patrolling off Somalia have succeeded in stopping some pirate attacks. But military assaults to wrest back a ship are highly risky and, up to now, uncommon.
The attackers generally treat their hostages well in anticipation of a big payday, hiring caterers on shore to cook spaghetti, grilled fish and roasted meat that will appeal to a Western palate. They also keep a steady supply of cigarettes and drinks from the shops on shore.
And when the payday comes, the money sometimes literally falls from the sky.
Pirates say the ransom arrives in burlap sacks, sometimes dropped from buzzing helicopters, or in waterproof suitcases loaded onto tiny skiffs in the roiling, shark-infested sea.
"The oldest man on the ship always takes the responsibility of collecting the money, because we see it as very risky, and he gets some extra payment for his service later," Aden Yusuf, a pirate in Eyl, told AP over VHF radio.
The pirates use money-counting machines -- the same technology seen at foreign exchange bureaus worldwide -- to ensure the cash is real. All payments are done in cash because Somalia, a failed state, has no functioning banking system.
"Getting this equipment is easy for us, we have business connections with people in Dubai, Nairobi, Djibouti and other areas," Yusuf said. "So we send them money and they send us what we want."
Yeah, I'm going to stay away from this thread for a while. And this stuff doesn't just happen to me on the internet, I piss someone off at school almost every day for political stuff.
Judy says, "If you were Jewish, you wouldn’t want to see a swastika on a shirt. If you were African-American, you wouldn't want to see anything desecrating you."
ok let's break it down here...
Jewish(Swastika)=Symbol of the third reich, who killed millions of jews.
Black(Confederate flag - im guessing shes referring to)=a symbol of the south, slavery was right etc etc
Christians(Baby jesus?)=offensive to christians?
People are so damn uptight about religious tolerance, it's pathetic. On the track of god's post, would an atheist person go into any clothing store and demand that the store pull all shirts that have dinosaurs on them? Because that's obviously directly offending their religious beliefs and all.
I'm... not sure that I follow the dinosaur thing. And I don't think that it was the baby Jesus part so much as it looked to be based off a painting, but with the Virgin Mary replaced with a skeleton.
But I do agree somewhat with kukopanki, iIt was ultimately the store that chose to stop selling the shirt. Its not as bad as if she had tried to sue them or something.
I think I agree with Kukupanki as well. A store choosing to stop selling merchandise it deems distasteful doesn’t seem too effed up.
This story sort of reminds me of when a clothing maker stopped selling a t-shirt depicting the Buddha in a comical sense. It wasn’t like it was hurting anybody, but it was disrespectful towards a philosophy many people take seriously. Nordstrom could have kept the t-shirt and told the women to shove off, but obviously they didn’t want to have a negative reputation.
Same with the clothing manufacturer depicting the Buddha. I’m sure they thought they were being clever in their idea, but when enough of their customer base complained, they realized they were being glib and insensitive to other world-views.
I’m not Buddhist, so I can’t say how a Buddhist should feel when they see a philosopher they respect mocked on a t-shirt. But I at least know that they feel hurt. Because of that, I don’t see a problem with a company willingly taking away their own product. There are plenty of companies willing to sell offensive t-shirts for people enthused about that sort of thing. I don’t see this company pulling it’s own product as a big deal.
ok let's break it down here...
Jewish(Swastika)=Symbol of the third reich, who killed millions of jews.
Black(Confederate flag - im guessing shes referring to)=a symbol of the south, slavery was right etc etc
Christians(Baby jesus?)=offensive to christians?
People are so damn uptight about religious tolerance, it's pathetic. On the track of god's post, would an atheist person go into any clothing store and demand that the store pull all shirts that have dinosaurs on them? Because that's obviously directly offending their religious beliefs and all.
I get the impression here that there are very few people in this forum who are actually religious. I wouldn't consider myself that religious, but eh, I would consider myself Christian. Kind of. I don't practice and all there really is for me is some belief in God and Jesus. If I saw that particular shirt in a store, I wouldn't go and complain about it, but to say that it's not even offensive in the first place? It is. I would think it was either wrong or just very bold (depending on what mood I'm in) as soon as I saw it. The designers of the T Shirt knew what they were doing; they were taking an historic painting depicting baby Jesus and Mary, took that well-known image and pose, and replaced Mary with a figure that looks a lot like Death. The Baby Jesus isn't what's offensive, it's Mary being replaced by Death that's offensive.
So many atheists I know yell and scream about how Christians are bad for never being tolerant of other religions or lack thereof. Yeah, I hate those people too; they're extremists, and I usually really disrespect any extremist ideas, since I don't think they ever work. I also hate atheists who assume that because someone is Christian they're batshit insane. It's extremist in the opposite direction, in my opinion. I've met plenty of nice atheists, and I've also met plenty of nice christians-- NOT crazy. Very rational and accepting of others.
I'm sorry thats what the stereotype calls for, there are indeed many christians out there (and a lot of Catholics) who are just retarded when it comes to being a rational, kind human being, but the woman in that video didn't say anything that out of line. She thought a shirt was offensive (which I agree with), she went so far as to request it be removed, gave her reasons (none of which were fucking stupid or intolerant of other peoples' beliefs), and so the store removed it. Why is everyone so ticked off at her? She wasn't screaming or hoohawing at the makers of the shirt. She doesn't think anyone should sell it, but who cares? That's a personal opinion. Is she not entitled to those?
I agree with you Mish. I was thinking more about other instances where people go crazy over such little things. I have recently had a bad experience with the Mormon religion, and that is what I was ticked off at. The article just reminded me that I was ticked off.
Comments
Really?! You don't know how your 8 year old son shot himself with a fully automatic weapon? Is that truly out of the realm of possibility?
Ahahaha, AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!
Keep the change, ya filthy animal.
EDIT: I bet he dresses up as an 80's action hero for Halloween.
It seems to me some bitchy woman compared a simple picture to the Holocaust and slavery!
Nordstrom yanks questionable t-shirt
It's fucked up because she's actually making progress for this. While not as violent, she is just as fundamentalist and closed-minded as the Muslims who got into a fiery rage for images of Muhammad a few years back. She as a Christian found this offensive, and with total disregard for other beliefs, not to mention the right of free speech, she decided it was her duty to convince others to stop selling it. And she wants it removed from shelves all over the nation.
And, she did compare it to the holocaust, and a bit more subtly towards black oppression, which is just a disgusting comparison.
One woman saw a t-shirt she thought was too offensive, she reached the retailer, the retailer decided to stop carrying it: it's consent between two persons, and it doesn't affect anyone else. It's very probable that other stores carry the shirt, and if not, the manufacturer and/or author can contact them in order to sell their merchandise. Heck, if I want one so bad I can contact the manufacturer myself. No one's rights have been transgressed, or anything of the sort.
It would be different if she had rallied for the government, senate, etc., to ban or censor the shirt, then we would be actually talking about a real violation of free speech (supposing the government had complied).
I'm more or less atheist, and I agree with god's hypothetical. I don't really like t-shirts with Bible messages or other Christian views. Back in college there was a guy who wore a shirt all the time that said "Fight Moral Relativism". To my set of beliefs, I found it inflammatory and lined with intolerance and hatred. I thought he was damn stupid, but I didn't tell him not to wear the shirt, nor did I try to find out where the shirt was made so it could not be sold or distributed anymore. I just made a choice to ignore it.
It's surprisingly easy! Instead of making a huge ordeal about a shirt you don't like, you simple move on and continue your shopping.
Edit: Roberto, it might not have been consensual. Angry Christians can make a lot of noise, and chances are Nordstoms removed the shirt simply to avoid making a scene.
All in all, I think that now I might too start protesting about shirts that offend me. I swear I will try to get at least one store to stop selling Che Guevara shirts.
ok let's break it down here...
Jewish(Swastika)=Symbol of the third reich, who killed millions of jews.
Black(Confederate flag - im guessing shes referring to)=a symbol of the south, slavery was right etc etc
Christians(Baby jesus?)=offensive to christians?
People are so damn uptight about religious tolerance, it's pathetic. On the track of god's post, would an atheist person go into any clothing store and demand that the store pull all shirts that have dinosaurs on them? Because that's obviously directly offending their religious beliefs and all.
But I do agree somewhat with kukopanki, iIt was ultimately the store that chose to stop selling the shirt. Its not as bad as if she had tried to sue them or something.
I think I agree with Kukupanki as well. A store choosing to stop selling merchandise it deems distasteful doesn’t seem too effed up.
This story sort of reminds me of when a clothing maker stopped selling a t-shirt depicting the Buddha in a comical sense. It wasn’t like it was hurting anybody, but it was disrespectful towards a philosophy many people take seriously. Nordstrom could have kept the t-shirt and told the women to shove off, but obviously they didn’t want to have a negative reputation.
Same with the clothing manufacturer depicting the Buddha. I’m sure they thought they were being clever in their idea, but when enough of their customer base complained, they realized they were being glib and insensitive to other world-views.
I’m not Buddhist, so I can’t say how a Buddhist should feel when they see a philosopher they respect mocked on a t-shirt. But I at least know that they feel hurt. Because of that, I don’t see a problem with a company willingly taking away their own product. There are plenty of companies willing to sell offensive t-shirts for people enthused about that sort of thing. I don’t see this company pulling it’s own product as a big deal.
I get the impression here that there are very few people in this forum who are actually religious. I wouldn't consider myself that religious, but eh, I would consider myself Christian. Kind of. I don't practice and all there really is for me is some belief in God and Jesus. If I saw that particular shirt in a store, I wouldn't go and complain about it, but to say that it's not even offensive in the first place? It is. I would think it was either wrong or just very bold (depending on what mood I'm in) as soon as I saw it. The designers of the T Shirt knew what they were doing; they were taking an historic painting depicting baby Jesus and Mary, took that well-known image and pose, and replaced Mary with a figure that looks a lot like Death. The Baby Jesus isn't what's offensive, it's Mary being replaced by Death that's offensive.
So many atheists I know yell and scream about how Christians are bad for never being tolerant of other religions or lack thereof. Yeah, I hate those people too; they're extremists, and I usually really disrespect any extremist ideas, since I don't think they ever work. I also hate atheists who assume that because someone is Christian they're batshit insane. It's extremist in the opposite direction, in my opinion. I've met plenty of nice atheists, and I've also met plenty of nice christians-- NOT crazy. Very rational and accepting of others.
I'm sorry thats what the stereotype calls for, there are indeed many christians out there (and a lot of Catholics) who are just retarded when it comes to being a rational, kind human being, but the woman in that video didn't say anything that out of line. She thought a shirt was offensive (which I agree with), she went so far as to request it be removed, gave her reasons (none of which were fucking stupid or intolerant of other peoples' beliefs), and so the store removed it. Why is everyone so ticked off at her? She wasn't screaming or hoohawing at the makers of the shirt. She doesn't think anyone should sell it, but who cares? That's a personal opinion. Is she not entitled to those?