I actually find it offensive that you would put the beliefs of a faith in the “fucked up news” thread right after discussion on someone who received sexual gratification from a corpse.
Unfortunately, "Fucked Up News" is sort of a broad category. There's plenty of previous posts as well that aren't about horrible things like that. It's a megathread, there's a broad spectrum of fucked up ness to contribute.
I know your post was meant to juxtapose two seemingly related articles in an effort to point out an apparent hypocrisy in the Catholic church, but the truth is, the church is made up of sinners, saints, and of people who will totally screw up. Everyone is imperfect no matter if one is Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.
Actually, that was not my intent at all. I honestly did not see the part about the principle being from a Catholic high school. These are just the two stories that I happened to stumble across today. I would have just as readily put up links to an article about that whiny atheist not wanting to allow his local school to have a brief moment of silence or somesuch, or any other story, really. My posts, or this entire thread at large (at least in my mind) isn't meant to be thematic. It's all random stories that are meant to provide discussion, or morbid humour, or even just a chance to shake one's head and think about humanity. In this post in particular, any sort of conclusions are left to the reader. No one has said anything more than what the articles have said. All that there is the implication that there's something "not right" about them, to varying extents.
In effect, you're accusing me of being anti-faith just by posting some articles in a thread were a myriad of other faith groups were also called onto the carpet, so to speak -- but it didn't bother you then, I guess? I'm allowed to highlight the foibles of other religions, but just not Catholicism?
Catholics can think objectively. Catholics are simply encouraged to be pro-life. The whole subject of abortion is so subjective, I don’t understand why you would put it in the “fucked up news” thread. It’s just a belief.
Mario explained this very well, but I will say that I am myself, personally, very opposed to abortion. And while I'm not a Catholic, I do admire their self-described "consistent ethic of life" on a number of points, particularly with the death penalty. But, what I found to be fucked up with this news story is the encouraging of pharmacists to pointedly not provide a service that, for better or for worse, many people in the United States think is important. The Pope is concerned about the pharmacist having to compromise his principles, but what about a girl in a small town who doesn't share those principles? Why should she have to make concessions, but the pharmacist doesn't have to? Pharmacists provide a service for everyone. And you may disagree, and that's the beauty of it, you can call bullshit if you want, like you did, and I in turn explain myself, which I am now. And the cosmic dance continues.
Are you angry that a high school principal from a Catholic school dressed up as a woman and solicited sex? I am too! I’m furious about it! But with more than a billion Catholics in the world, there are bound to be a tremendous amount of screw ups! Does that make the whole faith of a church hypocritical and wrong and Fucked up? This man will go to trial, and I hope justice is served. The diocese mealy states that he denies the allegation. If he is guilty, the church will not defend him.
Again, you're reading too far into this. I would have posted the article regardless of the school this particular person was working for -- public, private, whatever. There's no broader indictment of Catholicism.
I like you guys on the forum a lot. I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m just trying to show some of you a different opinion. You guys are fun and quirky; please don’t be angry at me.
While I think you overreacted, you're entitled to believe and say what you want to. You obviously feel very strongly, and I do appreciate that you didn't resort to the petty insults that usually work their way into internet discourse.
In regards to the cross-dressing principal story: I have to wonder if he was just dressed up for Halloween. The police basically charged him with soliciting sex just because they saw him dressed up in leather. He may have been going to or coming from a party. How can they even prove if someone is a prostitute? Did they see him picking up guys? Was he wandering around in that alley for an extended period of time, trying to pick up guys? It just seems like they don't had enough information yet to write an article and ruin someone's career.
While I think you overreacted, you're entitled to believe and say what you want to. You obviously feel very strongly, and I do appreciate that you didn't resort to the petty insults that usually work their way into internet discourse.
OMG PRF MACJAK U R A CATHLIC HATING DOUCHEE!!!!11
That being said, I have a few other cents to throw in.
There isn't an easy solution to the pharmacist issue. There are too many people that have very invested interests in their opinions, and these opinions do not generally grant compromise. So no matter how the courts or whoever rules, there are always going to be a lot of people pissed off.
While allowing pharmacists who do not believe in abortion to step aside and allow someone else to dispense the drugs instead, this is a band aid solution at best; it is not going to solve anything in the long run. Pharmacists who have very strong convictions are not going to step aside when they see themselves as passing the proverbial gun to someone else. In their eyes, that is not any better an alternative.
My personal belief is that you are allowed to have your belief, no matter what it is. You may practice it to your hearts content. However, I do not agree that you have the right to expect others to follow your beliefs. Just because you don't believe abortion is right doesn't mean that you should refuse prescriptions to those who do believe. And if you believe abortion is okay, then you don't have the right to tell Christians or Prof. MacJake or anyone else that their beliefs are ill founded.
And, with no relation to what I just said, here's a picture to further poke fun.
It's a pharmacist's job to dispense medicine. Normally, if someone refuses to do the job they were hired for, you fire them. I don't see why exceptions should be made for Catholics.
Same thing happens here with Muslims. Sometimes if they're behind the till and you buy alcohol some refuse to sell it to you and you need to wait for them to call someone else who knows how to use the till to do it for them.
Unfortunately, "Fucked Up News" is sort of a broad category. There's plenty of previous posts as well that aren't about horrible things like that. It's a megathread, there's a broad spectrum of fucked up ness to contribute.
You’re right. Looking back, I suppose I did overreact. I guess your stories just really caught me off guard. I’m so used to people pummeling Catholics, that I felt compelled to write some sort of defense.
In effect, you're accusing me of being anti-faith just by posting some articles in a thread were a myriad of other faith groups were also called onto the carpet, so to speak -- but it didn't bother you then, I guess? I'm allowed to highlight the foibles of other religions, but just not Catholicism?
I guess the combination of stories led me to believe that you had an agenda. I am sorry for the misunderstanding. As for the other faith groups, I will admit that some beliefs slightly perturb me, but mostly it is because I simply do not have the proper knowledge to defend them. If they’re doing something fucked up, then they’re doing something fucked up. And seeing as your intent wasn’t to relate the two articles, I can see how the former is head-shake worthy and the latter a matter of dispute.
Mario explained this very well, but I will say that I am myself, personally, very opposed to abortion. And while I'm not a Catholic, I do admire their self-described "consistent ethic of life" on a number of points, particularly with the death penalty. But, what I found to be fucked up with this news story is the encouraging of pharmacists to pointedly not provide a service that, for better or for worse, many people in the United States think is important. The Pope is concerned about the pharmacist having to compromise his principles, but what about a girl in a small town who doesn't share those principles? Why should she have to make concessions, but the pharmacist doesn't have to? Pharmacists provide a service for everyone. And you may disagree, and that's the beauty of it, you can call bullshit if you want, like you did, and I in turn explain myself, which I am now. And the cosmic dance continues.
Well said. Pharmacists are in very compromising positions. It really is why I, myself, am not choosing to take up a career in pharmacy. Many people depend on pharmacists, and it isn’t fair for them to encounter complications. I wish there was a simple solution.
Again, you're reading too far into this. I would have posted the article regardless of the school this particular person was working for -- public, private, whatever. There's no broader indictment of Catholicism.
Again, sorry. It is really refreshing to see someone approach this issue with understanding and intelligence. I just always get the feeling that people think it’s alright to ream on Catholics that I totally misconstrued the intent of your post.
While I think you overreacted, you're entitled to believe and say what you want to. You obviously feel very strongly, and I do appreciate that you didn't resort to the petty insults that usually work their way into internet discourse.
Thanks, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt next time I feel the need to dispute. Thank you for putting time into your responses, I do appreciate these higher level discussions.
OK, now that everybody's happy, i don't have to worry about setting anyone off. There was one part of that article that really caught my attention:
A few states in the U.S. have passed laws that specifically allow pharmacists or pharmacies to refuse to provide health care due to religious or moral objections, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive rights think tank based in New York.
There are some out there who truly believe that all sinners deserve death. They take it to heart that punishing the wicked is a righteous action. In other words, refusing to give life-saving medicine to a sinner (anyone following a "wrong" religion) would also be a righteous action. And I think the pharmacist's right to religious freedom would overpower any other charge, short of manslaughter.
Not to be glib, but I think there's a difference between waiting to get a beer and waiting to get emergency contraceptive after you've been raped.
Shit, how can I make this as offensive as possible?
The difference is that beer helps an honest man relax, and the rapist should have finished the job and killed the girl after she was raped. Also, she was 12. Also, she was Jewish.
EDIT OF: Now that just doesn't even make sense. Let's talk about what I really believe.
I don't think you should be required to go to four years of school to become a pharmacist. This goes for all professions. Now, all other things being equal, the professional who attends a respectable university would definitely be my first choice as opposed to some guy who learned his stuff without the aid of accredited education, and I hope most other people would make the same choice too.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't trust car dealerships. They have a monopoly, and they use that to charge $9.00 for some bolt that any blacksmith could make. Seriously, what's with that? Also, does anyone have a hydraulic press they'd like to sell me?
DOUBLE EDIT OF: According to http://www.thesteelindex.com/ , hot rolled coil steel is currently being traded about about $523 per short ton in North America (€599/tonne in northern Europe). That's $0.37 a pound. These bolts weigh only about half a pound (and that's being generous). That means the metal used to make one of these bolts was only $0.19. THAT'S NINETEEN CENTS FOR THOSE WHO CAN NOT READ ARABIC NUMERALS. I payed a 4737% overhead for manufacturing, shipping, storage, and profit. That is ridiculous. I need to build a forge. Like, seriously.
yeah... I think that was my reaction to it. Not really funny in any way :-/
Maybe I think that because I'm a young girl who actually worries about such a situation. Who knows!
As for the abortion/pharmacist problem, I don't think I could make any sound argument that would persuade people to agree with me, but I dont think pharmacists should decide what medicine is acceptable for their patients. I think Mario summed that up pretty well.
As for the abortion/pharmacist problem, I don't think I could make any sound argument that would persuade people to agree with me, but I dont think pharmacists should decide what medicine is acceptable for their patients. I think Mario summed that up pretty well.
As I said before, if a pharmacist refuses to fill a valid prescription then they're not doing their jobs, and if people don't do their jobs they should be fired and replaced by someone who will. Whichever invisible sky pixie you believe in shouldn't even enter into it.
Comments
Unfortunately, "Fucked Up News" is sort of a broad category. There's plenty of previous posts as well that aren't about horrible things like that. It's a megathread, there's a broad spectrum of fucked up ness to contribute.
Actually, that was not my intent at all. I honestly did not see the part about the principle being from a Catholic high school. These are just the two stories that I happened to stumble across today. I would have just as readily put up links to an article about that whiny atheist not wanting to allow his local school to have a brief moment of silence or somesuch, or any other story, really. My posts, or this entire thread at large (at least in my mind) isn't meant to be thematic. It's all random stories that are meant to provide discussion, or morbid humour, or even just a chance to shake one's head and think about humanity. In this post in particular, any sort of conclusions are left to the reader. No one has said anything more than what the articles have said. All that there is the implication that there's something "not right" about them, to varying extents.
In effect, you're accusing me of being anti-faith just by posting some articles in a thread were a myriad of other faith groups were also called onto the carpet, so to speak -- but it didn't bother you then, I guess? I'm allowed to highlight the foibles of other religions, but just not Catholicism?
Mario explained this very well, but I will say that I am myself, personally, very opposed to abortion. And while I'm not a Catholic, I do admire their self-described "consistent ethic of life" on a number of points, particularly with the death penalty. But, what I found to be fucked up with this news story is the encouraging of pharmacists to pointedly not provide a service that, for better or for worse, many people in the United States think is important. The Pope is concerned about the pharmacist having to compromise his principles, but what about a girl in a small town who doesn't share those principles? Why should she have to make concessions, but the pharmacist doesn't have to? Pharmacists provide a service for everyone. And you may disagree, and that's the beauty of it, you can call bullshit if you want, like you did, and I in turn explain myself, which I am now. And the cosmic dance continues.
Again, you're reading too far into this. I would have posted the article regardless of the school this particular person was working for -- public, private, whatever. There's no broader indictment of Catholicism.
While I think you overreacted, you're entitled to believe and say what you want to. You obviously feel very strongly, and I do appreciate that you didn't resort to the petty insults that usually work their way into internet discourse.
OMG PRF MACJAK U R A CATHLIC HATING DOUCHEE!!!!11
That being said, I have a few other cents to throw in.
There isn't an easy solution to the pharmacist issue. There are too many people that have very invested interests in their opinions, and these opinions do not generally grant compromise. So no matter how the courts or whoever rules, there are always going to be a lot of people pissed off.
While allowing pharmacists who do not believe in abortion to step aside and allow someone else to dispense the drugs instead, this is a band aid solution at best; it is not going to solve anything in the long run. Pharmacists who have very strong convictions are not going to step aside when they see themselves as passing the proverbial gun to someone else. In their eyes, that is not any better an alternative.
My personal belief is that you are allowed to have your belief, no matter what it is. You may practice it to your hearts content. However, I do not agree that you have the right to expect others to follow your beliefs. Just because you don't believe abortion is right doesn't mean that you should refuse prescriptions to those who do believe. And if you believe abortion is okay, then you don't have the right to tell Christians or Prof. MacJake or anyone else that their beliefs are ill founded.
And, with no relation to what I just said, here's a picture to further poke fun.
There were big cash payouts.
I was just saying that it's similar here except we don't get many Catholics here.
I guess the combination of stories led me to believe that you had an agenda. I am sorry for the misunderstanding. As for the other faith groups, I will admit that some beliefs slightly perturb me, but mostly it is because I simply do not have the proper knowledge to defend them. If they’re doing something fucked up, then they’re doing something fucked up. And seeing as your intent wasn’t to relate the two articles, I can see how the former is head-shake worthy and the latter a matter of dispute.
Well said. Pharmacists are in very compromising positions. It really is why I, myself, am not choosing to take up a career in pharmacy. Many people depend on pharmacists, and it isn’t fair for them to encounter complications. I wish there was a simple solution.
Again, sorry. It is really refreshing to see someone approach this issue with understanding and intelligence. I just always get the feeling that people think it’s alright to ream on Catholics that I totally misconstrued the intent of your post.
Thanks, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt next time I feel the need to dispute. Thank you for putting time into your responses, I do appreciate these higher level discussions.
There are some out there who truly believe that all sinners deserve death. They take it to heart that punishing the wicked is a righteous action. In other words, refusing to give life-saving medicine to a sinner (anyone following a "wrong" religion) would also be a righteous action. And I think the pharmacist's right to religious freedom would overpower any other charge, short of manslaughter.
The difference is that beer helps an honest man relax, and the rapist should have finished the job and killed the girl after she was raped. Also, she was 12. Also, she was Jewish.
EDIT OF: Now that just doesn't even make sense. Let's talk about what I really believe.
I don't think you should be required to go to four years of school to become a pharmacist. This goes for all professions. Now, all other things being equal, the professional who attends a respectable university would definitely be my first choice as opposed to some guy who learned his stuff without the aid of accredited education, and I hope most other people would make the same choice too.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't trust car dealerships. They have a monopoly, and they use that to charge $9.00 for some bolt that any blacksmith could make. Seriously, what's with that? Also, does anyone have a hydraulic press they'd like to sell me?
DOUBLE EDIT OF: According to http://www.thesteelindex.com/ , hot rolled coil steel is currently being traded about about $523 per short ton in North America (€599/tonne in northern Europe). That's $0.37 a pound. These bolts weigh only about half a pound (and that's being generous). That means the metal used to make one of these bolts was only $0.19. THAT'S NINETEEN CENTS FOR THOSE WHO CAN NOT READ ARABIC NUMERALS. I payed a 4737% overhead for manufacturing, shipping, storage, and profit. That is ridiculous. I need to build a forge. Like, seriously.
Maybe I think that because I'm a young girl who actually worries about such a situation. Who knows!
As for the abortion/pharmacist problem, I don't think I could make any sound argument that would persuade people to agree with me, but I dont think pharmacists should decide what medicine is acceptable for their patients. I think Mario summed that up pretty well.
My god says that you must die now. Otherwise we risk losing more souls to your evil influence.
You're just sour cuz you didn't get any of the promised cake.