Do you honestly think that peopel on this board are lying when they give Agentcel possitive feedback!? I think most have already proven that they are willing to be brutally honest.
They may not be lieing fully, but I do think some people don't speak their mind fully. It's just I haven't seen much negative feedback here, just-
"It's great" or "I like *part here*"
The only people I've seen as brutally honest are Melted Johnny Cake and Paper Street. And I thank you both for taking my words with much needed civility. (sp?)
I did like his first one quite well. I agree that it does not seem finished tough. If you want some advice from me, here it goes:
1.) Try drawing it larger. about twice that size and then shrink it down to 1/2 when it's done. I don't know if it would help at all, but it might lead to some better clarity.
2.) bring it into an image editing program that supports layers (photoshop is the typical example but there are free options such as Gimp), and try to draw some nice clean lines using your drawing as a guide. There are tutorials and demonstrations of this out there from other webcomic artists. I could try to find some later this week if need be.
3.) Try your hand with color. If you don't want to do that, you might want to consider learning how to do some proper lighting work (don't call it "shading", there is more to it than that) as you've already done a bit of that with limited success, even if you may have done it by accident.
That much could put you down a road to cleaner, more complete looking work. I'm not an expert though, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
I think you need to work on your writing. Link doesn't feel believable or logical as Behemoth touched on before. He seems way too cool and collected for having just been ambushed by his own evil side in the middle of the night. People don't often talk a whole lot during fights. Since fights are often emotional events they'll yell whatever's really on their mind. Taunts, motives, accusations, sometimes defense or attack of philosephies or thoughts. But no one would say, "And now that the blood is gone, allow me to retaliate." That kind of calm, logical response might fit an arrogant, super-powered villain, but not someone like Link. The Hero of Time's just been woken up in the middle of the night, lulled to the middle of no where, and ambushed by his dark side, try to think how you or a normal person would react to this kind of thing. I know I'd have plenty of questions, maybe even some guilt or uncertainty depending on past actions of what the dark side has done or something similar. Writing isn't to explain the story in a comic, that's what the art is for, writing is there to make the story believable to the readers.
Also two personel pet peeves of mine: I find that tasting the blood is a cliche of how to show that a character is psychotic. Others may like it but I think it's old hat. And I really hate it when a character announces what they're going to do before they do it. Again this is mostly about the "allow me to retaliate" line, but I should be able to see the characters actions and intentions, having him yell them while in a fight is pretty unrealistic.
With that said, I'm terrible at writing narratives, it's why I stick to essays and similar styles for podcast articles. So if a better writer (i.e. Hamelin) comes in and says completely different things, by all means, take his advice. These are mostly my personal view points on the topic and I know next to nothing about actually writing stories.
I actually really like the art here. Even in just 4 comics you're certianly showing improvement so go ahead and keep practicing. Drawing does get better with repitition, unlike most writing, which is why I focused on that the most. There's certainly better stuff out there, no doubt about that. When I see your other stuff I mostly just think it's sub-par but in comic form it really stikes a chord in me. The sketchyness, lack of color, random panel placement, and how you only draw specific parts of the body or action in each panel remind me of a scratchy dream, or a movie or story you can't remember too well. It plays along really well with how the reader is currently unsure whether or not the events are actually occuring in the real world, in Link's psyche, or it's all just a dream or something similar. If that's the kinda thing you're going for I think the feeling would actually be enhanced with less text. But whatever you want keep on going at it, you're drawing is definently getting better.
Wow, that was a lot longer than I thought it would be, I got started and just kept finding new things to say. So after writing what feels like an essay on four comic pages, I may come across as pretentious or a jackass for saying this, but this project is entirely yours and you're free to take it in any direction you wish. These are just my personal suggetions and opinions.
EDIT: When I envisioned my 400th post it was nothing like this.
Do you honestly think that peopel on this board are lying when they give Agentcel possitive feedback!?
Stole the words right out of my mouth, Behemoth.
Basically, if I really cared what strangers think of me and my work, Ryoga would have me pretty depressed and pissed off, what with calling my comics crap and calling me a liar and all. But I don't, so whatever.
Agentcel, I think it's pretty clear that this isn't meant to be an epic story, as pointed out in your first post where you said it was only supposed to be 10 comics or so. You said it's supposed to be a battle, and what you're giving us is a battle. Keep going, and forget about jerks like Ryoga. And yes, from where I'm sitting, he's just being an asshole, otherwise he wouldn't have put the word artist in quotes when he called you one. That's what people do when they try to say you're not what they're calling, as if I were to say, "Ryoga is a 'nice guy.'" Clearly I don't think he's a nice guy, I think he's a jerk, otherwise I would have just said, "Ryoga is a nice guy." without the quotes. I can keep going with more examples on why I think he's only trying to be an asshole here, but I won't derail your topic any further unless someone specifically asks for the rest of my reasons.
Keep going, man. Some of us wanna see the rest of this battle. :cool:
Thanks. I needed that. While that above post was a bitch to read, I think that people are gonna be more honest with me. But one thing is fo' sho! I SURE AS HELL AM NOT GIVING UP. So Ryoga's post had some good and bad effects.
what with calling my comics crap and calling me a liar and all. But I don't, so whatever.
A liar? ok, totally didn't say that, but I won't fret about the small stuff. Yeah, I did put Artist in quotes, because I don't consider him one yet, improvement is needed. I don't call myself a writer yet because I turn out a few crappy stories, I call my self a practicioneer. To call myself a writer would be an insult to true writers. I wish I was was a writer. And yes, I am an asshole, jackass, however you wish to put it. But there's one thing I know, and that's to speak my mind and give it to you straight. I'm not going to dance around the subject and sugar coat it. You want criticism? I'm giving you the first thing that comes to mind.
And forgive my earlier thing about lieing. I did mention something about that, I realized halfway through writing the previous paragraph.
Anyways...I don't want him to stop, by all means keep going, but he has to realize in real life, if your going to a college to get stuff looked at for your portfolio, or you are trying to enter it in any contest, they'll judge with the same indifference as me.
Now, I realize, this is a forum, alls fun, but if I think I should...well, I won't go as far and say 'prepare' him for the real world, I can certainly attempt to show him not everyone is as accepting.
Hmm...I've lost my initial point, i'm sorry for that. I would like to wing it at this point, but I won't, i'll spare you all from my jackassery.
Either way, do as you please, my opinions and bitchy comments are the result of me being painfully blunt and straightfoward. It's gotten me in trouble before, and I do hate it when people do it so often as to completely break you, but i'm also a hypocrite.
Yes, I am persecuting someone again, and i'm sorry, but I assume an aspiring "Artist" wants critisism.
First of all, what I quoted, I'm having a hard time wording this without sounding like a total A**hole. I suppose i'll put it like this. From what I have read, and seen, you have little artistic ability, nor do you have much talent with writing. Now, I realize, your new to it...hopefully, but this is poor.
I have a hard time understanding what is going on in the scene, everything seems really scratchy and unrefined.
you need to put some finishing work on them. I've noticed that in your last comic, second row leftmost picture is really, really bad.
There's a reason I don't attempt to draw, or do pixel comics, or sing. It's because I can't. Stick to what your good at, if you don't show promise after a lot of practice, it might not be for you. I tried drawing, I couldn't pick up on it, even after many hours of practice, so I don't do it, outside of bored sketches in class. Yes, it's a bad idea, to give up, but it will save many people a lot of headaches, and lieing.
Honestly, you have no idea what you're talking about. People have talents, sure, but you think artists start out with the ability to draw fully-formed pieces or comics automatically? You think singers never started out somewhere?
Improvement is slow. I'll give you that. I started drawing not too long ago, and I sucked. But I drew every day all I could, just putting the time in. I studied proportions and guidelines, and practiced them every day, and while the change was slow, I'm definitely a lot better than when I started out, and that was when I was 15. If you really have the motivation and drive to improve something, and you put your time and effort into it, even if it's just a little bit every day, you'll succeed.
Honestly, Agentcel is showing potential. He needs to tighten up his linework, and his panel composition could use a bit more planning, but he's not off to a bad start.
Honestly, "talent", by which I assume people mean "natural talent", is nothing more than slight disposition towards something due to (often indirect) past experiences with that particular activity. Simply being familiar with art will allow you to begin with a slight advantage (talent) that others do not have. Almost anybody (especially before the age of 14 or so) has full potential to gain skill. It may be a little late for some people, but even they'll still have the ability to improve at least to what most would consider quite good. It really only takes practice.
Ryoga, I am often quite blunt. But it is quite possible to be blunt and still had tact. You're not skirting around the issue if you simply choose words that don't have an inherently negative connotation. There's a big difference between being honest and being rude. You don't have to be rude to give honest feedback or criticism. Also, "softening the blow" usually keeps people more receptive to your critique. If you really want to help, then being "brutally" honest is not the way to go, that will turn people off from your advice, they just assume you're an ass who doesn't know what he's talking about.
Oh boy, mixed feelings about this one. I think that some panels came out pretty good, while others just, well, suck. I don't know if I've been rattled around too much with suggestions, or what, but I think that I like the more scratchy- black and white way. Bigger panels aren't working for me and...let's not get started on the color. I'm almost definitly going to chack back to the old style. But still, I want to hear you guys say "damn right!!". Of course that may not be the case...here.
Checking back in here...Huh. Didn't think dark magic could heal like that. Doesn't seem to fond of those light arrows though.
...I wrote another big critique thing, but I've decided to cut that out here unless Agentcel desires another large "advice" post. I will simply say that Amoeba Boy seemed to be describing the whole "show me, don't tell me" issue earlier about the writing.
As far as the art, I think that was good up until the final pannel.
I have to agree. Link looks very ugly in the last panel, and he's really not holding the arrow properly (at least, I can't imagine any archers trying to hold and aim an arrow holding it that way). Other than that, it's pretty good. I do miss the scratchiness, though, as I think it helped set a darker mood for the battle.
Personally, I prefered the orginal style better, lack of color and all. Maybe just using mroe shadow and green and red every so often would be ok. But I definitely liked the monochrome better.
Take all of the detail out of the nose and mouth.
Move the eyebrow forward and make it larger, more pronounced. It's carrying most of the facial expression here, so make it count. It'll also make him look more masculine.
In most comics styles, profiles suck to draw. I've found in drawing comics profiles that the less detail I put in all parts except the eye, the better they look.
No really, the artwork is just great. You clearly spent a lot of time on it as you always do.
My more benevolent advice would be to accually think about what you are presenting. If you want to make comics, go ahead, but you really need some practice. Someone could say that you're getting your start now. But I say no one needs to see anything this preliminary and you only post these as a "Hey, check me out! I'ma makin' me comics!!!!"
Go practice, refine talent and show something you can be proud of intead of just atracting unnessessary attention to yourself.
In response to an earlier topic, Ryoga's mentioning of lying has quite a bit of weight to it. You didn't give his argument enough credit.
Gee, I was under the impression that the meaning behind my words was that I liked the comics. I was also under the impression that being dishonest is act of not telling the truth, or in other words, lying.
Dude, look at Spyro, Kirby and the rest. People around here do not lie in order to spare the feelings of others. In the case of Agentcel here, we offer constructive criticism and mention what we like about it. We don't pretend it's better than it is. If you and Ryoga are so stupid that you can't tell the difference between being encouraging and lying to spare someone's feelings, that's your damn porblem. You can have your own god-damned opinion, don't assume we're all lying because we have a different opinion!
Ok...Paper Street, stop derailing my thread and starting a flame war. You and Ryoga's comment's are genrally the same. You both posted your constructive critisism, which will be helpful in the future, but you went one step further. You had to start insulting everyone else, hinting at the fact that they were lying, and now everyone's just arguing. You can insult my art all you freaking want, but don't go calling my supporters liers and telling me what they feel, because obviously these guys know what they're thinking about, not you. You don't know if they think my comic sucks or not. You may think it, but don't asume that it's common sense for people to hate my comics. And actually, I didn't start this comic to be an obnoxious attention seeker (happy?). I have this comic planned out, and I know where it's going. I have a right to post whatever I want in this thread, it dosn't have to be a complete work of art. And also I ask you this: If I were to "fine-tune" my skills before posting....how would that work? I'm posting these comics because I know I need help, and I'm asking for it, and getting it. So if you have negative crits, go ahead and post them and I'll take them into considoration, but please don't go flaming people and derailing this thread any further. Thank You.
Comments
"It's great" or "I like *part here*"
The only people I've seen as brutally honest are Melted Johnny Cake and Paper Street. And I thank you both for taking my words with much needed civility. (sp?)
1.) Try drawing it larger. about twice that size and then shrink it down to 1/2 when it's done. I don't know if it would help at all, but it might lead to some better clarity.
2.) bring it into an image editing program that supports layers (photoshop is the typical example but there are free options such as Gimp), and try to draw some nice clean lines using your drawing as a guide. There are tutorials and demonstrations of this out there from other webcomic artists. I could try to find some later this week if need be.
3.) Try your hand with color. If you don't want to do that, you might want to consider learning how to do some proper lighting work (don't call it "shading", there is more to it than that) as you've already done a bit of that with limited success, even if you may have done it by accident.
That much could put you down a road to cleaner, more complete looking work. I'm not an expert though, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
Also two personel pet peeves of mine: I find that tasting the blood is a cliche of how to show that a character is psychotic. Others may like it but I think it's old hat. And I really hate it when a character announces what they're going to do before they do it. Again this is mostly about the "allow me to retaliate" line, but I should be able to see the characters actions and intentions, having him yell them while in a fight is pretty unrealistic.
With that said, I'm terrible at writing narratives, it's why I stick to essays and similar styles for podcast articles. So if a better writer (i.e. Hamelin) comes in and says completely different things, by all means, take his advice. These are mostly my personal view points on the topic and I know next to nothing about actually writing stories.
I actually really like the art here. Even in just 4 comics you're certianly showing improvement so go ahead and keep practicing. Drawing does get better with repitition, unlike most writing, which is why I focused on that the most. There's certainly better stuff out there, no doubt about that. When I see your other stuff I mostly just think it's sub-par but in comic form it really stikes a chord in me. The sketchyness, lack of color, random panel placement, and how you only draw specific parts of the body or action in each panel remind me of a scratchy dream, or a movie or story you can't remember too well. It plays along really well with how the reader is currently unsure whether or not the events are actually occuring in the real world, in Link's psyche, or it's all just a dream or something similar. If that's the kinda thing you're going for I think the feeling would actually be enhanced with less text. But whatever you want keep on going at it, you're drawing is definently getting better.
Wow, that was a lot longer than I thought it would be, I got started and just kept finding new things to say. So after writing what feels like an essay on four comic pages, I may come across as pretentious or a jackass for saying this, but this project is entirely yours and you're free to take it in any direction you wish. These are just my personal suggetions and opinions.
EDIT: When I envisioned my 400th post it was nothing like this.
Stole the words right out of my mouth, Behemoth.
Basically, if I really cared what strangers think of me and my work, Ryoga would have me pretty depressed and pissed off, what with calling my comics crap and calling me a liar and all. But I don't, so whatever.
Agentcel, I think it's pretty clear that this isn't meant to be an epic story, as pointed out in your first post where you said it was only supposed to be 10 comics or so. You said it's supposed to be a battle, and what you're giving us is a battle. Keep going, and forget about jerks like Ryoga. And yes, from where I'm sitting, he's just being an asshole, otherwise he wouldn't have put the word artist in quotes when he called you one. That's what people do when they try to say you're not what they're calling, as if I were to say, "Ryoga is a 'nice guy.'" Clearly I don't think he's a nice guy, I think he's a jerk, otherwise I would have just said, "Ryoga is a nice guy." without the quotes. I can keep going with more examples on why I think he's only trying to be an asshole here, but I won't derail your topic any further unless someone specifically asks for the rest of my reasons.
Keep going, man. Some of us wanna see the rest of this battle. :cool:
A liar? ok, totally didn't say that, but I won't fret about the small stuff. Yeah, I did put Artist in quotes, because I don't consider him one yet, improvement is needed. I don't call myself a writer yet because I turn out a few crappy stories, I call my self a practicioneer. To call myself a writer would be an insult to true writers. I wish I was was a writer. And yes, I am an asshole, jackass, however you wish to put it. But there's one thing I know, and that's to speak my mind and give it to you straight. I'm not going to dance around the subject and sugar coat it. You want criticism? I'm giving you the first thing that comes to mind.
And forgive my earlier thing about lieing. I did mention something about that, I realized halfway through writing the previous paragraph.
Anyways...I don't want him to stop, by all means keep going, but he has to realize in real life, if your going to a college to get stuff looked at for your portfolio, or you are trying to enter it in any contest, they'll judge with the same indifference as me.
Now, I realize, this is a forum, alls fun, but if I think I should...well, I won't go as far and say 'prepare' him for the real world, I can certainly attempt to show him not everyone is as accepting.
Hmm...I've lost my initial point, i'm sorry for that. I would like to wing it at this point, but I won't, i'll spare you all from my jackassery.
Either way, do as you please, my opinions and bitchy comments are the result of me being painfully blunt and straightfoward. It's gotten me in trouble before, and I do hate it when people do it so often as to completely break you, but i'm also a hypocrite.
Well, that's about it.
Ryoga.
Honestly, you have no idea what you're talking about. People have talents, sure, but you think artists start out with the ability to draw fully-formed pieces or comics automatically? You think singers never started out somewhere?
Improvement is slow. I'll give you that. I started drawing not too long ago, and I sucked. But I drew every day all I could, just putting the time in. I studied proportions and guidelines, and practiced them every day, and while the change was slow, I'm definitely a lot better than when I started out, and that was when I was 15. If you really have the motivation and drive to improve something, and you put your time and effort into it, even if it's just a little bit every day, you'll succeed.
Honestly, Agentcel is showing potential. He needs to tighten up his linework, and his panel composition could use a bit more planning, but he's not off to a bad start.
Ryoga, I am often quite blunt. But it is quite possible to be blunt and still had tact. You're not skirting around the issue if you simply choose words that don't have an inherently negative connotation. There's a big difference between being honest and being rude. You don't have to be rude to give honest feedback or criticism. Also, "softening the blow" usually keeps people more receptive to your critique. If you really want to help, then being "brutally" honest is not the way to go, that will turn people off from your advice, they just assume you're an ass who doesn't know what he's talking about.
But anyway, enough arguing with Ryoga for now. How's comic #5 coming along?
...I wrote another big critique thing, but I've decided to cut that out here unless Agentcel desires another large "advice" post. I will simply say that Amoeba Boy seemed to be describing the whole "show me, don't tell me" issue earlier about the writing.
I have to agree. Link looks very ugly in the last panel, and he's really not holding the arrow properly (at least, I can't imagine any archers trying to hold and aim an arrow holding it that way). Other than that, it's pretty good. I do miss the scratchiness, though, as I think it helped set a darker mood for the battle.
Take all of the detail out of the nose and mouth.
Move the eyebrow forward and make it larger, more pronounced. It's carrying most of the facial expression here, so make it count. It'll also make him look more masculine.
In most comics styles, profiles suck to draw. I've found in drawing comics profiles that the less detail I put in all parts except the eye, the better they look.
No really, the artwork is just great. You clearly spent a lot of time on it as you always do.
My more benevolent advice would be to accually think about what you are presenting. If you want to make comics, go ahead, but you really need some practice. Someone could say that you're getting your start now. But I say no one needs to see anything this preliminary and you only post these as a "Hey, check me out! I'ma makin' me comics!!!!"
Go practice, refine talent and show something you can be proud of intead of just atracting unnessessary attention to yourself.
In response to an earlier topic, Ryoga's mentioning of lying has quite a bit of weight to it. You didn't give his argument enough credit.
Clearly I was mistaken.